Surrogacy Is a Podcast
Surrogacy Is a Podcast
Surrogacy and Resilience: Kristin McQuaid's Story of Loss, Hope, and Legacy
In this episode, we honor Infant Loss Awareness Month by welcoming Kristin McQuaid, a mother through surrogacy and adoption, who has turned her heartache into a powerful legacy for her baby, London.
Kristin’s journey to motherhood is a testament to resilience. She shares her struggles with infertility and severe endometriosis, leading her and her husband to pursue surrogacy. The hopeful preparations gave way to the devastating loss of their baby, London—a moment that forever changed her life.
Yet, Kristin’s story doesn’t end in sorrow. Through her pain, she found strength, creating "London is the Reason," a nonprofit dedicated to supporting families facing similar tragedies. By placing London at the center of her mission, Kristin ensures that her baby’s short life carries on, creating meaning and hope from loss.
Join us for a heartfelt conversation about how grief can inspire action and the transformative power of community. Kristin also shares the importance of compassionate support and open dialogue about the complexities of parenthood and loss.
Discover how London’s story lives on through Kristin’s advocacy and learn more about her mission at LondonistheReason.com.
I am so excited to be able to talk with Kristen and bring a much-needed awareness, and I'm like in my mind, figuring out what are the things? How do we—we know a lot of people, we've helped a lot of people and we know that there's been a lot of intended parents who come to surrogacy after a lot of loss, and so for me, I'm thinking how the heck do we get in front of these people's face who can potentially donate and we can spread the word and and help others in this really much needed space that is, I feel, is like just a void right now. So it is it is.
Speaker 2:I think, yeah, I think this is such.
Speaker 2:Surrogacy is a beautiful thing about building families, and something that you don't anticipate when you enter into a surrogacy arrangement is the possibility that that the pregnancy outcome can be tragic, like it was in the journey that led up to surrogacy.
Speaker 2:So I'm so grateful that Kristen has channeled her suffering and her loss into a way to help other people.
Speaker 2:So I am so honored to be able to share her story today and to meet her, and I'm so grateful that she's willing to share and that she's so open, because it is a story that happens to a lot of people but most people keep to themselves because they don't know how to share or don't feel comfortable sharing and um. So I'm really grateful and excited to have her here and we will, uh, have her on our podcast is a small tiny step and we'll figure out other ways to get get the message out there too. But London is the reason, is a beautiful organization I first heard about, I think, maybe a year and a half ago, when I can't remember how I got one of her packets in front of me of information about London is the Reason and reading her letter, and I'm just really honored that she's going to join us today and share her story with our listeners that can benefit from hearing her heart and what an incredible human being she is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let's do this.
Speaker 2:Hi, hello again. Oh gosh, kristen McQuaid, I'm so excited to have you. Surrogacy is a podcast. You are somebody that we have been following your journey and just been aware of, and just so grateful that you are here and willing to share what you've been through and and help other people, other families, other women who have experienced something similar and, um, or maybe who who haven't, but maybe will. Um, so thank you so much for being here.
Speaker 3:Um, I'm very excited to talk to you girls.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thanks. I think um sunshine and I have been experienced surrogates. I did my first journey Um, he's actually going to be 16 on the 30th of this month, which is crazy to me, um but we've. I've fallen in love with this because what? What I got to experience seeing my parents hold their baby for the first time was that unreal feeling that I know we all, that's the thing right and so. But I've seen, and I've worked in this industry a long time and I was a case manager for years, and it doesn't always go that way and there hasn't been a resource that can lean in and just be that hug that we need and saying it's okay. So I just am super grateful that you are here and able to kind of talk to your story and then be this platform, this voice, and um Lendon is beautiful.
Speaker 3:So, thank you, I think so too. She's a. She's a beautiful little girl, with um, a mission that I can't wait to share with everyone.
Speaker 1:So I know you share, I guess, an introduction.
Speaker 3:Yeah, tell us about your fertility journey, and yeah so just a little bit of a backstory about myself. I grew up in the dance world and I moved to Southern California and was in film and television. One of my first shows was Days of Our Lives and I danced with Britney Spears and Prince and I did all the Hollywood things I guess you could say. And when my family was moving, all about, we landed One of our places was Houston, texas, and one of my best friends there was getting married and I went to the wedding and I met my husband.
Speaker 3:He told me he was from Oklahoma and I looked at him and was like I don't know where that is. And he was like are you kidding me? And I was like no, I've honestly never heard of that state before. I mean I had heard about it, but like where is it? I have no idea. So he was like it's above Texas and I was like oh okay, so like cows roam around and he's like no, it's like a normal city. No, no, no, guys, it's not a normal city. I mean we have two malls actually one now but it's nothing like California. So I told him I am not moving there, I can't. Like this is where California is where I'm at.
Speaker 3:So we did long distance for four years, wow. And then the industry kind of took a like a little shift and so I decided if I was to leave right now, would I have felt like I accomplished what I wanted to do? And from in front of the camera? Yes, I did. And so I moved on to producing and directing, but I could do that from anywhere. So I decided to make the leap and move to Oklahoma and then still travel back to California when need be. So my husband and I were married shortly after I moved here and we've been married for 16 years to date. So that's fantastic.
Speaker 2:Oh, congratulations. My husband and I just celebrated our 16-year anniversary on the 19th too, doesn't?
Speaker 3:it feel like 49 years, it's just so many lifetimes. So many. I mean it's crazy and at the same time you're like but I just feel like it was just not that long ago that we got married, but that also feels like so long.
Speaker 2:Time is not real.
Speaker 3:It definitely is not. And time in any journey, surrogacy, everything is the most horrible word. I hate the word time. So we wanted to just kind of like be us, because we never got to celebrate us without being long distance for so long. So we waited a couple years and then we decided it was time to grow our family and, just like anyone, you just think you're just going to have sex and you're just going to have a baby and that, just that, wasn't happening for us. But I thought, like that's totally fine, like totally normal, this happens all the time. So I was like Kristen, you're overthinking it, just calm down, do some meditation, it's going to be fine. So a couple of years still go by and I'm like, okay, maybe we need some, some help. So we went to the doctor and I um, I had endometriosis and I thought this is totally fine because Khloe Kardashian also has endometriosis and if she can have a baby, I can have a baby because Kristen is a Kardashian fan. So I thought this is fine, like we're going to get through this.
Speaker 3:And so the 20-minute surgery that was supposed to be in and out we'll clean you out ended up being an hour and 45-minute surgery where I had to spend the night in the hospital. The doctor came out and said that was the worst case of endometriosis he had ever seen. And still I didn't feel defeated. I thought well, if we're going to get pregnant, it's going to be now, because we're cleaned out Now it's going to be go time. And it still wasn't happening. A couple of years had gone by and I had to have another clean out because the endometriosis had come back. The pain was just unreal. Those of you that that's what I was going to ask you because you found out you had endometriosis.
Speaker 2:I wondered if you did. You have a lot of pain. Were you aware If you had the worst that had ever been seen? I guess you just don't know, because it's your body. You're like this is normal, because it's normal for you.
Speaker 3:You know when I first started noticing is when we were having sex and it felt like needles and knives and I felt so embarrassed to tell my husband that it was so painful because it also was like I wanted a baby so bad, and I didn't want to like embarrass my husband. And it was like a kind of a mixed emotion, kind of feeling. Um, so I knew something was not right, but I also wasn't thinking, I didn't even know what endometriosis was, um, until I had gone to the doctor. Um, because it's all internal and you don't really even know. A lot of people live with endometriosis and don't even know they have it. And so then, once I knew what that pain was, then I knew when it was coming back, and so I had gone in for another clean out and the doctor said, kristen, this, you have been cleaned out twice. You are going to have a baby, like maybe multiples at this point, okay, and I was thinking, that's fine, we can have, give me four babies. We've been waiting for so long, we can have babies, lots of them. And so we had.
Speaker 3:We finally got pregnant and I remember like being so nervous, like peeing on the little stick and like my heart's just like fluttering and racing. I did. That's just the best feeling for any woman, just to be like, ah, um. And so I remember going in. My husband is a cardiologist and so I remember going to the hospital and running down the hall. I wanted it to be like one of those movie scenes where it's like slow motion, running like honey look, and like jumping into his arms. It wasn't quite like that, but kind of.
Speaker 3:And so we got to our first appointment and the nurse said, well, there's no heartbeat yet, but it could be too early. Don't we just love that it could be too early. So then we go upstairs and the doctor was like you're going to have a miscarriage. And I was like, oh, wow, just like that. That's how you're going to tell me Okay, great. So now what? Because I had never gone through this. What's the pain? What am I supposed to experience? I'm freaking out. When is this going to happen? I don't know. And it was awful, as everyone know. Anyone that has gone through a miscarriage can know that it's awful. So there was a positive and a negative. We had just lost a baby, but the positive was that I got pregnant and I'm thinking this is great, like I can get pregnant.
Speaker 3:So we kept trying again and we had no luck. No luck and the endometriosis came back again. But it came back even worse, and I finally went to the doctor and he said Kristen, I hate to tell you this, but you're going to have to have a hysterectomy. Like you, your endometriosis is. It's not going to cure itself, like it's just going to keep coming back and I think that it's interfering with your infertility. And so I swallowed that, as any woman that has gone and been told that they have to have a hysterectomy. I think I was in my late twenties to have a hysterectomy.
Speaker 3:I think I was in my late twenties, um, and I was thinking like, wow, like there, I can never hold a baby myself. Like that's just taken away from me and there was no outlet for me. Like okay, so this is what you're going to do next and if you want a child, you can do this. Like obviously I had known about adoption because of Annie and like all of these movies that we all grew up with, and so I knew that that was obviously an option and I had always wanted to adopt, ever since I was a little girl. So maybe I was just like cut out to never carry a child. But I thought like, ok, let me just do some research. And I came across surrogacy and I thought you know what, let's do this first, because this is going to be our closest option to pregnancy, where I can be involved in all of the you know the doc, the doctor appointments and the ultrasounds, and having talking to the surrogate and saying like the baby's starting to kick and I can hear the hiccups, and and I wanted to be a part of all of that. And so we went through a surrogacy agency in Texas and the journey was perfect, like it was textbook I flew to, I think, two or three appointments. I went. The big one was the anatomy scan, and I felt like it wasn't long enough, like I was expecting to be there for like two or three hours, and I just wanted to stare at the, at the little baby Her name is London and I just wanted to stare at her and watch her kick and move and twirl around and get away from the little prong that they're poking the surrogate's belly with. And she was just adorable. And I didn't want that moment to end. And little did I know that that moment was going to be what. I was going to see her move at all. And so we went.
Speaker 3:My husband and I quickly realized that we had no idea what we were doing. We were about to welcome this baby girl into our home and the surrogate had a planned C-section because she had C-sections with her other two kids and so we had a due date. So we were driving down to Texas listening to podcast after podcast after podcast. What do you do with a newborn baby? Like we had no idea, like do we just set her down when we come inside? We don't really know.
Speaker 3:And, guys, we had everything for the baby. I mean I watched hours and hours and hours of like what products are the best, what swing is the best? And you know, everybody has their own opinion. Well, I didn't want to be wrong. You know they say the baby might like this but my baby hated it. So, but my baby liked this one. We bought them all, we had them all. We had rooms full, everything I had the cleaners in it was immaculate to welcome in baby London and we had done the name reveal and the gender reveal and I'm a public persona and so everything in my life has been public. And so the world was like, ready to welcome in baby London to with me.
Speaker 3:And we drove down to Dallas and we were meeting with our surrogate the night before and we had dinner. Her family had cooked us dinner, we exchanged gifts, family had cooked us dinner, we exchanged gifts and I was thinking, like this is the last time that I'm going to go to sleep without being a mom, like this, is it so? It was, it was crazy. And and then we, then we take a turn. Yeah, so that's me in a nutshell. I mean I can keep going.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So that's me in a nutshell. I mean I can keep going. Yeah, I think those are the moments, you know it's like you don't even have words.
Speaker 2:I would love it if you would. I love that, up until that moment, that you still are celebrating all of those moments because they are special. In all of those moments, even when london was in utero, she was loved and having the best life and the best family to come home to. And life is so unfair and some people get long lives and some people get short lives and there's just no justice in it. But it's awesome that she, that she existed for the time that she did so. Thank you for sharing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know I do think that that's important to realize, like you kind of create a world for your child before they're even here, like I knew that she was going to be like a little rocker girl and I wanted her to do gymnastics and I mean I had you just have this whole world picked out for them and you envision like what you're going to do and what conversations you're going to have, and your whole world is surrounded by this human that isn't even here yet. I woke up and in the nine months that London was with the surrogate and I had gone to appointments, I had never asked any medical questions. There were never any reasons for me to ask any medical questions. Every doctor's appointment when the surrogate would call me and said everything looks great, no complications, everything. I just went in, listened to the heartbeat and everything's fine. So I never really had a reason to doubt that anything was wrong. I woke up, we had to be at the hospital. This was during COVID, so the surrogate had to go early to go get COVID tested and this and that. So we were going to meet her a little bit later, but still it was very early and so I had woke up around 4.30 in the morning and I immediately text my surrogate and said have they hooked London up to the heart monitor yet? And she was like no, they haven't. They're still doing the test and this. And that I was like okay, well, text me when they do.
Speaker 3:I don't know what came over me to ask this odd question about her heart and I had gone over to just put like a cold washcloth on my face and I was like devil, if this is you coming to steal my joy after waiting for 14 years of infertility and surgery, surgery, loss. Like I need you to flee because you. This is my moment to celebrate our daughter. And there was just something so heavy about like this feeling that I was holding and my parents had flown in. So I got everybody that grandma, grandpa, mom, dad, shirts and my husband had his shirt on and I didn't have mine on and he said are we not wearing our shirts today? And I was like, oh, because I didn't have mine on. And he said are you, are we not wearing our shirts today? And I was like oh, because I didn't want to tell him what I was feeling, because I didn't. I was hoping I was wrong. I was hoping that, like this feeling was just abnormal and I didn't really know. So I said, oh well, I think maybe let's, let's just wait until after. Skin to skin, because I want to walk around the hospital and be so proud with my mom's shirt on with baby London. And he was like, just put it on, kristen. And I was like, okay, I'll put it on.
Speaker 3:So this communications with the surrogate had started to slow down a little bit and I knew that she was being hooked up and all that stuff, so I didn't want to bother her too much. Um, we got into the hospital and we rang the bell and I said, hi, this is Kristen and Steve. And we're here, my surrogate's here. We're going to be delivering our little baby girl today. And they were like, okay, a nurse is going to be here, she'll come out to get you. Just have a seat in the lobby, normal. I don't know. I've never been through this before. So I just thought like, okay, shortly after a few minutes, after the nurse had come back and said Kristen and Steve and my parents had stood up and they the nurse said oh, why don't you guys wait here? And I was like, ok, I don't know, maybe that's, maybe it's rules, maybe it's COVID, I don't know.
Speaker 3:So we go back and we're led to this room and it's like a testing room, almost like where you would give blood, or there was no bed in it. My surrogate wasn't in there. I just thought like okay, kristen, like maybe your thoughts really are real, and so we sat down. They said the doctor will come in in just a second. And I was like why is the doctor coming into this room? And shortly after she came in, with a nurse on either side of her and she looked at us and she said it's not good, she doesn't have a heartbeat. I froze and I just dropped my head.
Speaker 3:It was almost like I couldn't breathe, but in a very weird sense, my heart had already prepared myself for this news. My husband, on the other hand, was not prepared at all. He was pacing the room, asking what do you mean? You just saw her two days ago, and she was completely fine what are you? What is the? No, this can't be real, this can't be right. And she was like I know, I, I don't know.
Speaker 3:And my immediate thought was I want to go home. I don't like what is happening. Is this? Am I awake? I know it's early, like so many thoughts were going through my mind and then I thought out of all of the people in the world, how can this be happening to me? Like, people pop out babies left and right. There are families that have like over 12 babies and they have no issues at all and they're just. They treat pregnancy like it's just a walk in the park and after 14 years of waiting, I was minutes away from being a mom and then that moment was stripped away and there were no answers. One thing that I wanted to make sure for myself and I told my surrogate this from the very beginning is I'm not leaving the hospital until you leave the hospital. And I said you have given me a life and I want to make sure your life is okay.
Speaker 3:And as I selfishly took that moment away, that I just wanted to escape and run away from this, I had to remember that my surrogate still had to go and have a C-section and so we stayed at the hospital and we had social workers and doctors and so many people coming out and talking to us and you could tell it was just. It was the saddest day for everyone. The doctor was in tears. The doctor and I still talk to this day and she has been so affected by the. And there was just something special about London's presence where and it's just so hard for me to say, because any child that is lost is a precious child but London has affected so many doctors and nurses where they have changed their lives because of London and that to me just in itself is unbelievable.
Speaker 3:And I remember a nurse came out to me we were sitting by the fountains outside and as we were waiting for the surrogate to get cleared after the C-section, and she said I just remember this so clearly, it's awful she said um, london, we have London out and we have her all dressed and she's beautiful and she's perfect. And I wanted to punch her because she wasn't perfect, because she wasn't breathing, she wasn't alive, I didn't have her. And now I understand what she was saying. But in the moment I didn't even know I could see London. I didn't even know that that was an option no one had prepared me for if your baby is born sleeping, this is what's going to happen. And I wasn't prepared, my heart wasn't prepared for that. And they said she's all ready for you, you can come see her.
Speaker 3:I was like I can't, I can't see her, I can't, because, a I I don't think I can like emotionally, and B I will never want to leave her, like I just would want to hold on to her forever and ever and ever. And so I said, told Steve I can't do it, I I can't, you know. And social workers were coming up saying Kristen, for your grieving, you really should go see her. And I, I kept telling him I can't, I just can't, I can't, I couldn't even I could barely breathe, let alone like think of going to see what I could have had. And Steve said, and this must have been hours, maybe like two or three hours after, maybe not even, maybe not even that long. The time that day was just so often. Um, steve said I'm going to go, I have to go see her from for myself, but I respect if you don't want to see her. And I kept hearing a voice in the back of my head saying get up, get up and go see her, get up and go see her.
Speaker 3:And I kept saying like I can't, I can't, and this voice, like I just kept hearing it like get up. And I remember my my legs were so numb. I remember walking into the hospital my legs were so heavy and I felt like I wasn't even inside my body. And we turned the corner and there was a little white rose on the door and I thought that's where she is, that has to be her room. And sure enough it was. And they opened up the door and there was doctors and nurses flooding the room and I couldn't see London yet and I could hear one of the doctors say they're here, they're here. And it almost was like everybody separated and I could see her.
Speaker 1:And she was so beautiful she was stunning.
Speaker 3:She was stunning. And I just remember that feeling that I had, that really heavy feeling was gone. I felt so airy and light. It was like a peace that I didn't think was gonna be there. And I walked over to her and she was still warm, she was pink, and I looked at the doctor and I said I'm just waiting for her to breathe. She said, I know, and she was just laying there so peacefully and I knew that she was in a better place and I knew she. I just knew that she wasn't struggling. If she was, I don't know. And the doctor told me you can pick her up. And I thought, and I thought, oh my gosh, I get to hold her. And it was the. I had never held a baby that was mine before and so I held her. I was like, wow, this is so amazing.
Speaker 3:And I turned to my husband and I said I want to have 20 babies now because she was so pretty, because we were going to be one and done with London, and I, just all the doctors and nurses had cleared out of the room and I just remember looking at her and just thinking there's something about you that is not making me feel so empty, like you're trying to tell me something, and I couldn't figure out what it was. And I finally, um, I finally let her go after I think it was like six hours, and I just was like six hours and I just was cuddling with her and sleeping with her and, um, I would re swaddle her up and acting like I was a little girl, like with a little baby doll. And, um, I finally let her go and I was given this bear and it was like a buildBear and it was a nurse, brought it in and had a little tag on it and it said I want to give you this bear so you don't leave the hospital empty handed. And it said our daughter was stillborn and we left empty and I don't want you to feel the same. And it was in that moment that I thought someone else can feel what I'm feeling. Someone else knows exactly the way I feel, and I didn't feel so alone anymore.
Speaker 3:We ended up staying in the hospital that night because I was staying true to myself and said I'm not leaving until my surrogate leaves, and so my parents had gone back to the hotel room and we stayed in the hospital. They put us in a different floor so we wouldn't be hearing babies cry and floor, so we wouldn't be hearing babies cry and they kept bringing in like little memorabilia of London and it just would bring a whole new wave again. They had her dressed in this beautiful white dress and the hospital does such a great job at when babies pass, they take old wedding dresses and they have volunteers that make them into little angel dresses. And so she was dressed in this most beautiful dress and to think of that bride that donated her dress so that London could look so beautiful when she went to heaven, it's just like that woman will never know what she did and I selfishly kept I wanted to keep her in her dress when I sent her away, but I selfishly kept her blanket that she was wrapped in and so her color is always lavender. That's just the color that they chose for her and I sleep with that blanket and that bear every night and the hospital blanket that she was wrapped in. I sleep with that every night.
Speaker 3:And we left the hospital and I didn't know what to do next. I just wanted a baby so bad. I remember being in shock that day, hours after finding out that London didn't make it, and I asked the doctor, I said are there any babies here that don't have a mom and dad? Because, if not, I'll take the baby. And obviously that's that shock speaking, and it's obviously not how it works. But your heart is just hurting so bad that you just want to fill that void.
Speaker 3:And um, I got home and I was in a coma for four days. I didn't eat, I didn't drink, I didn't, I couldn't function at all and all I wanted to do was talk to my surrogate. I didn't. I didn't turn my phone on or look at my phone. The second that I found out that London didn't make it for three weeks after London passed, because I I knew I was going to have text messages saying you must be in mom world, you must be so over the moon that you haven't shared with us about London or we're so sorry what happened. And I, either way, I didn't. I couldn't face that. Yet I emotionally just wasn't there. I felt like I felt so embarrassed. I felt like I had left, let the whole world down. I everyone was so excited to welcome in baby London and I was so embarrassed, and I don't know why I felt embarrassed, but that's just the feeling that came over me that I let everyone down and my sister had come in. She drove 24 hours straight from Las Vegas to our house and moved every baby item away and hid it, so that when I walked in I wasn't reminded of the baby wonderland that we had created for London.
Speaker 3:And I started looking up support groups. My husband and I attended a support group just four days after we came home and I remember not wanting to talk at all when I first went to that meeting and I just wanted to listen and I almost was just mad Like why am I here? I shouldn't be here. I should be giving my baby a bottle and hearing her scream and cry. But then I realized like I almost wasn't what's the word? Like I just wasn't emotionally attached to the things that were being said and to how to heal me, because I didn't carry the child, physical or emotional. I had emotional but no physical attachment to London. I had no milk in my breast, I wasn't having hormones that were in my body and now trying to escape, I wasn't, I didn't have anything.
Speaker 3:So although I was London, although I am London's mom, I never held a piece of London, and so when I would go to these meetings or pick up a book on infant loss, I would find myself skipping through 75% of the book because none of it applied to me. 75% of the book because none of it applied to me. And it would be like you know talking about, you know how to move on from. You still feel the kicks and you still feel those little flutters in your stomach, and I would be. It would almost take me back to that moment when they were like you're going to have to have a hysterectomy and it was just so many emotions that were just stacking up on top of each other. I already knew I couldn't carry a child, but it almost was like rubbing it in my face that not only did you lose a child, but you also can't carry a child, so none of this applies to you.
Speaker 3:So I started looking up loss for surrogacy. So I started looking up loss for surrogacy and I thought there has to be, uh, an outlet for surrogates, because there's a million for infant loss and I couldn't find any. And I started reaching out to the surrogacy agency and they were like actually, I don't think there is any. They were like actually, I don't think there is any. And I am a huge fan of Shark Tank and I think I'm going to be a multimillionaire one day by inventing something. However, every time I think of something, I then go on to Google and it's already invented. So really I'm like, oh, so I'm thinking it's one of those situations where I'm like, okay, this isn't like something that doesn't really exist, right, because there's billions of people on this earth. You can't tell me that this is that.
Speaker 3:In that, that, in that moment, right then, two weeks after London passed, I knew that was London's purpose in life. I knew right then that's why I felt that peace when I saw her, because she didn't even need to live here on this earth for her purpose to be heard. She just needed me to see her and to help others. And in that moment is when London is the reason it's born. Two weeks Two weeks, yeah, I joke because my husband he was in the garage and just to get his grief and rage and all that out.
Speaker 3:He was building up his gym and he wanted to show me this Like I don't even know what it's called like something on the wall. And he was like Kristen, do you want to see what I've been doing? And I was like sure, do you want to see what I've been doing. And I was like, sure, so I go out and he shows me. And he's like, what have you been doing? And I was like, oh, let me show you. I created a whole website and I started a nonprofit organization for London. And he was like, okay, I shouldn't have shown you what I just did, let's just keep it at. You created this nonprofit.
Speaker 2:Please don't tell people about my gym.
Speaker 3:Gym, yeah, and I just that was just such a funny like timing thing that he was like so what have you been doing? And it was I. Another crazy kind of link to London is the reason is the name. And I remember when London was still in the surrogate's belly, I wanted a shirt when she was born to wear it, actually even before, because I everyone knew that I was going to name her London, and I wanted a shirt that said London. But I didn't want it to be cheesy, you know, like, uh, london, um, so, like I don't know. I I had it in mind, but I just didn't. It wasn't really specific.
Speaker 3:So I went on Etsy, I, I'm an Etsy girl, I love Etsy. Um, don't get me started on there, because then I won't even leave and they can take my money. And so I went on there and I came across this shirt and it said it has the coolest text and it said London is the reason. And I thought, well, I like it. I have no idea what it means, but I'm going to buy it. And so I bought it and I was thinking, okay, kristen, almost like a tattoo you need to be prepared for when people say, what does that mean, and every time I wear it and I'm going to send both of you girls a lot of reading pleasure, please every time I wear it, people are like London is the reason, and I go, she sure is, let me tell you. And, um, I remember coming home from the hospital and looking in my closet for a sweatshirt and I was moving my clothes and I came across the London is the reason and I just fell to the floor and I was like wow I.
Speaker 3:Wait a minute, like it's all making sense. So I messaged the seller from the sweatshirt and I was like you have no idea, like I don't know why you made the sweatshirt, but this is what it is now. And he was like I'm in tears reading this. He's like I had no idea that, like this sweatshirt that I made would become such a phenomenon and like helping others. And so it was just everything almost just seemed like easy in a sense, where it just was like laid out, like I barely had to think like, oh, I'm going to start a nonprofit for my daughter. Going to start a nonprofit for my daughter. It just happened and it's. I think it's just because she was guiding me to know that that's what was supposed to be, and it has been a huge success. Three years going on, three years, london just turned three on July 14th and she saved.
Speaker 3:I know of two lives of women that have wanted to take their lives because they didn't think they could live on with the pain of their loss, and hearing London's story changed their outlet. Not only did one become a surrogate again, one is now a advisor to help other surrogates along their journey. So they flipped it into a positive and are now helping others because of London's purpose and mission. It blows my mind Like everyone thanks me and I'm like, oh no, it's not me, it's London. I am just speaking her voice and being her mission.
Speaker 3:And obviously I know like I'm her mom and it's hard to come from such a dark place Like and I want everyone to know that I was in a very, very dark place when London passed Points of me not wanting to be alive. I didn't think I didn't have anything to live for other than my husband and my family. I had no other, I didn't have children. So I thought why? I just want to be with London. I wanted to be with her so bad that I knew that was my only way to do it. And then I thought, kristen, you can't, and so to think of going here to where we are today is mind blowing, just for me, honestly.
Speaker 2:I want to ask about your surrogates experience, because that's a really. I imagine she probably carried a lot of self blame and things like that. Were you able to talk with her afterwards and how did she cope with it and how did she cope with it.
Speaker 3:You know this was her first journey being a surrogate and so this was our first journey together. So we were both very eager and all in and it was a first experience for us both. So she was just as involved, I guess, as I was, and she. You know it's hard because I know for myself. I don't think I could ever be a surrogate just because of the emotional attachment. Women that are surrogates oh my goodness, casey, warriors, you guys are so selfless To give someone a chance like myself that could never be a mom. That role, that title is something that even a surrogate can't understand.
Speaker 3:London, because she was such a powerhouse and she changed the role of so many, just even in the hospital, that it was hard for my surrogate. She knew that she wasn't going to, walked away with a piece of London and had to explain to her kids where the baby is. And I think her kids at the time were like two and four. Two and four. So not only because she knew like they were, they knew that she was having a baby and they wanted to see the baby and they she had explained to them. So that was hard. And then also, I just think that I only wanted to talk to my surrogate after the loss of London. I didn't want to talk to anyone else, and I think that was because and I think she felt the same way, and I think it's because we still felt like London was a part of us, and when I was texting her I felt like I was texting London in a very weird way. I felt like I was texting London in a very weird way. My husband got me a burner phone, as he would say, because I wouldn't turn on my other phone and so and of course he didn't get me one that I could text easy. It was like the one where you have to like, if you want the letter C, you have to go one, one, one. I'm like, honey, I'm already struggling. Can you get me a phone that, like, I don't have to think about? Oh, my gosh, it was so hard and we made it work. So my texts were very short, but they were there, and so I just remember laying in bed and we both were just like texting each other back and forth.
Speaker 3:And so she felt the loss and the letdown and the grieving and I felt for her. I ruined her life. She's going to have to deal with death for the rest of her life. Her kids are going to, like, always talk about London, what happened, and she's I feel like she's always going to carry on this story within her life, where she never felt like she accomplished what she was out to do. And so I felt personally that I was, that I ruined her life, that London was gone.
Speaker 3:So, like my grieving was for so many people not just my family and myself and my husband but I had to think about, like my surrogate and her family and her parents and all of her friends, and it was. I felt like I was spreading myself so thin in trying to heal myself because I had that added layer of Loss. And I know that my surrogate felt the same way. I know that she felt like how am I going to? I don't want to go to work and people be like how's the baby? Like how was she? Let's see pictures. And I felt so bad that she had to go through that. I selfishly thought like just because I wanted a child, I put this human through this pain. Like how could I do that? And again like I could have what if I chose another surrogate, would this have happened? And like all these thoughts go through your brain and I just, I feel, I feel for her. I really do.
Speaker 2:How about now? What resources I guess I would love, because we could go on and talking about all the elements of your story forever, but what I'd really love for our listeners to be able to take away is what does London is the reason offer as support so that somebody else who, god forbid, ever finds themselves in this situation? What do they do first? What can they expect as resources from London is the reason?
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 3:So London is the reason offers free support, not only through support groups, but also with surrogates and intended parents, so each party can discuss with another surrogate or with another intended parent who has gone through loss and get the resources, emotionally, that they need. I felt like when I went through loss, I was led to a therapist that didn't go through loss and I got nothing out of that. Not to diss any therapist, because therapy may work for you. It just didn't work for me. And others that I have talked to that have gone through loss have also felt like talking to other parents that have gone through loss or other surrogates. That is when their healing started to begin.
Speaker 3:And so, with London is the reason that has a resource for those people to be able to be reached out to. We can do text messages, we can do Zoom calls, we can do group therapy. So you may want to talk to a group of surrogates and say what happened to you here, what happened to you here, how did you deal with this, because everybody has a different answer and that answer might just be what you need to hear. And then, as far as you can talk to me always, you can always reach out to me free, no charge, call me, text me. You may get to the point where you're like, ok, it's my time, but I'm not ready. Because you may feel ready right now, but you may get to that point right before your time and say I can't do it. I can't do it and that's OK, because I get you, like I get it, and so that is always there. We are an open book.
Speaker 3:The nonprofit is here for you and for support, and then we also offer healing boxes.
Speaker 3:Where I can get these boxes to you.
Speaker 3:Whether you just lost a baby, or maybe it's been a few months and you're like I haven't been able to find my healing yet, like I don't even know where to really begin, let me send you a box, let me help you get to where you need to begin to start your healing. And these boxes are specific for surrogates and for intended parents, so they're different for each party, because you guys are going through different healing processes and so the nonprofit is is just a free resource that is much needed all across the board, in agencies in hospitals, in agencies in hospitals. If you have a way of getting these boxes to a local hospital that you want me to send them to reach out to me. I will send them to your hospital. If you have a doula or a therapist that you are like this therapist talks to a lot of intended parents and infant loss have them reach out to me and I would be more than happy to send these boxes to them. So the nonprofit offers a lot of endless support and we are always here for you.
Speaker 1:I um, something you had said when I was watching another podcast, um, that you had shared this story was there was healing when you've got to see her. And, um, when I was a case manager years ago, um, I was a case manager for a journey, um where the surrogate um had to deliver a stillborn baby at 24 weeks and um, and the parents were so devastated and heartbroken they couldn't come to the hospital to say goodbye to their baby and I didn't want her to be by herself, so I was right by her side when she delivered and she grieved and it was hard and I watched her and she stayed in that room similar to what you had shared, as long as I would let her and I then connected with the intended parents afterwards and they had so much grief, wishing they had done it differently, that they had come and held their baby girl, and so I just I think that this resource is so necessary. So I just I think that this resource is so necessary and I want, I want you to touch every single agency out there in the sense that, like I want to scream through the rooftops that they can feel like I'm not alone. I'm not alone and it is hard, but this is how you can get to the other side of it. So I'm so grateful for London and what you are doing and her it just yeah.
Speaker 1:We have an agency I've been doing the 16 Years Sunshine. It's a three-time surrogate. I'm a two-time surrogate. I'm a two-time surrogate. We're really grossly in love with surrogacy and everything it stands for and the hope and the joy and the beauty that it brings. But there is some sadness in that and I just am grateful that there is a resource now tangible for us to give in a situation that is needed. So I just thank you. Thank you for being a part of this with us today and thank you for sharing.
Speaker 3:Of course. Yeah, I think that, if I can just touch on what you were saying, as far as from an agency standpoint, my goal for London is the reason is to get boxes in every single agency so that, in the case that this does happen, they have them on hand and can either bring them to the hospital or you have them to send them off. My agency, when we went through London, had never gone through a full term stillbirth situation and they didn't know how to proceed. They didn't know what to say, they didn't know what to send, they didn't know what to do next, and I think that that is what London is the reason is for is to turn to say we have a resource From the very beginning of the journey.
Speaker 3:I think it is very important for agencies and for clients like myself, as the intended parent, to be very, very open about what can happen, because I do feel it's. In the contract it is stated that this is not a guarantee, but it's almost like you just you almost feel like you're buying something you know, like you're going to sign a contract, you're giving your money, it's, and then this is the product that you're going to get, but we forget that it's life, that you're dealing with humans, that you're dealing with science and it's not always going to come to fruition, and I feel like with surrogacy, everyone feels like it's a guarantee, and I think I heard that in one ear and out the other and I thought, oh, yeah, sure, okay, right, right. And I just was so eager to get my child that I didn't hear it and I wish I would have, because I wish I would have said okay, but there's also a chance that something could happen. But I'm in good hands because, if this does, the support that I have for it is going to help me to start again, or to go in a different direction, to be able to have a child in a different way, to know that that just wasn't the end, and that's what I felt.
Speaker 3:I felt like once I lost London. That was it. It was blackout done, and it was up to me to figure out what was next, to figure out what was next, and it life has. London has given us two babies here on earth. And so today, seven months after London had passed, we, we looked into adoption after London passed. I think it was like four months after um, which is very early. You have to go through all these like psychological tests and all this stuff. So if you're not ready, don't do this, what we did, but if you are, go for it. You do you. And we looked into adoption and doing another surrogacy journey with a different surrogate at the same time, because we thought we can't do this again. If this happens again, I can't do it again.
Speaker 2:You don't have any more time to lose either at this point.
Speaker 3:Any more time. Time, awful, that is the worst word that anybody could tell someone that just lost somebody. It's going to take time. Because you don't want time, you want the baby now, which obviously like can't happen, but you have to kind of make them think that it's. We're in the process. And so, seven months after London was in heaven, london passed. We adopted a little baby girl and her name is Bexley and Bexley is a borough in London and so we named her in honor of her sister and they both have the same middle name Quinn. And then, seven months after we adopted Bexley, and then, seven months after we adopted Bexley, our surrogate was pregnant and we went to the same hospital, I rang the same bell, I talked to the same doctors and the same doctor and all of the same nurses delivered our son. That delivered London.
Speaker 3:And I chose to do that on purpose. I could have gone to a different hospital, a different doctor, but I wanted to conquer this pain and I wanted to face it straight on that I was going to walk out of that hospital with a baby in my arms that was breathing and alive and here on earth. And I did it and it was awful, and I walked through those doors and I was like I can't do it, I can't do it. And I was like, kristen, you are going to do it. Walk through the doors, ring that bell. But my heart was like I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't. And all those emotions came back up into me and I walked by that room that had the white rose and no one was occupying it, because now it is used as a storage unit, and I was like that's right, no one's going to use that room anymore, it's already been occupied. And so our son, ford, was born, and so now we have all of our kids are seven months apart, and it's all of the greatest craziness in the world.
Speaker 3:I cannot imagine my life without these two that I have here, and to know that London is the reason that I have these two babies is incredible. I love them so much and they speak about London and they know that she is their sister and that she lives in heaven. And, yes, they are just two years old, but they know all about her because we speak her in our house and I think that is so important for others to know that it's. Don't put it up in a shelf and say this didn't happen. I can't bring it. Speak it.
Speaker 3:Speak life into your child, that your child is here. London is here right now. London is very present every day and that's because I let her in, I let London speak to me, and I feel like a lot of women shame that and don't celebrate the loss of their child. Shame that and don't celebrate the loss of their child, no matter what age six weeks, 24 weeks, 39 weeks. Celebrate your child because they are a child and they are yours and they deserve the same amount of energy as your babies here on earth, and I think that is so important to to remember. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for sharing all at seven months apart, all of them.
Speaker 2:It's just so amazing, too, which is there's so many, there's so many little little signs and signals that that seven, seven, seven. I know it's just, it's just, it's really, it's really beautiful. I can't believe, like I think, I shaved my legs today and now they're hairy again because you know all the goosebumps, all prickly. So thank you, thank you so much for sharing and I think, as an agency, I hope that we never have to encounter something like this. But I'm so grateful that we'll be prepared with a resource that you have immediately, because those early days, those early hours, I think are so critical, especially when you're dealing with somebody who is feeling such a state of grief that they are wanting to throw out their own life because they can't have this unbearable pain, and to have something to put in their hands in those hours is so valuable. So thank you so much for using what you've been through to create something that can help other people, just like whoever it was that that came up with that bear to give to you like that.
Speaker 3:I know, and do you know, that they have reached out to me since they found me on social media and reached out and were like we are the ones that have given you the bear. I immediately broke down into tears. I was like you have no idea what that stupid Build-A-Bear has done in my life. Like Build-A-Bear like who would have thought that that Build-A-Bear is my life? Like that's all I have for London, and that little bear has changed my life. I was like losing my mind and then I also wanted to bring up something else, if that's okay, yes, please. Listeners, that may not be. Maybe they don't have children or want children, or maybe they're done having children, or maybe they're just friends with someone that has gone through loss. So if you know someone that has gone through loss and you're like what do I do? What do I say? Because that was a huge part in our healing Our neighbors would run inside like we had like some fungus growing out of it. They just didn't want to face us. We would get the complete ignore aspect of it. Where I would, it was our vet. We would like drop off our dog and like this was maybe two or three weeks after it had happened and there was no mention of it. So people just don't know how to handle loss. Don't send flowers. Flowers die and you just dealt with death, nor do you have the energy to keep the flowers alive.
Speaker 3:I remember walking out of my room and every time I walked it just looked more and more like a cemetery. It was like white flowers everywhere and I just didn't want to be reminded of the loss yet. I just wasn't ready. And so I remember my mom walked out. She's like Kristen, I know what you're going through. Like I get it, but there's something different today. Like I get it, but there's something different today. Like what is it? And I was like I hate these flowers. I hate them. I was like we need to get rid of all of them. But there was one grouping of flowers that was colorful. All the rest of them were white. So we got rid of all the white flowers and we kept the one colorful, because that gave me energy, that gave me life, and in that moment that's all I needed was life.
Speaker 3:So if you're going through it, a simple I'm sorry, let me know when you're ready and I'm here for you. That's all you need. You don't have to send anything. You don't have to try and figure out the right words because we don't, we don't want to, there's nothing you can say that is going to change the way I feel, and so a simple I'm sorry, I'm here for you, end of the story. You don't have to keep going on. You don't have keep going on, and I think that people just don't know what to do. And so to hear that from someone that has gone through loss, I think is a very valuable point, and so, hopefully, if you do have to face someone that has gone through loss, you can take that with you and be there for them and know that you don't have to go over and beyond, for you know the unbearable things, the unthinkable. Can you hug them? You can hug them. You can hug them, you can write.
Speaker 3:I loved handwritten letters. I loved anything that was very personable, like something, even if it was as simple as London was so beautiful, like I can't imagine that you're going to have to go through this, but I am here for you. Blah, blah, blah. It was just, it almost was like the commercialized aspect of like what happens when somebody dies. We send flowers where that's all we kind of know as a society is like how to to do that, but I think it's maybe acceptable for, like, a grandpa or a grandma that's passing away to send white flowers grandpa or a grandma that's passing away to send white flowers but there's something about white flowers with a baby that just doesn't seem right to me. I don't know, it just seems very cold and empty and that's not what I wanted to feel.
Speaker 3:But a hug, love, hugs, hugs are great. They may last five seconds and they may last 15 minutes, depending on where you are in your grieving. Some days I'm really good and other days it's really hard and I think I'm okay. And then I'll go through a day where I'm like, wow, okay. And then I'll go through a day where I'm like, wow, it's emotional. Today it's a heavy day and that's okay because your life after loss has changed forever. My life will never be the same and you have to be okay with that. You have to know that you are stronger than you ever will be because of this situation and you are going to help others by speaking on your loss.
Speaker 3:If I was to be so closed off and never speak of my loss of London the amount of people that we have helped today. To think of that is crazy. So just to even say like, oh, we lost our daughter at 15 weeks and I guarantee you they were going to say, oh my gosh, we lost, we knew of somebody or we had this and what did you do? Or how, there's the ways that you can connect and heal and grow with the community over loss, especially infant loss, is so needed because women are scared, women are embarrassed like I was to speak on loss and I think we just need to be more open and know that it happens and it's okay and it's part of life. Unfortunately, I never would have pictured me sitting here today talking about infant loss ever. I thought I was going to be like everyone else and just have a normal pregnancy. And here I am. I wasn't pregnant, I didn't have my first child and it took 14 years. So don't give up. Don't give up oh, never. You can't. You have to keep going, yeah.
Speaker 1:I have so many things that I'm thinking that we could be doing to spread the word and make sure that every agency on this planet knows about this process and this being an option for them. So how do we, how do we get involved?
Speaker 2:How do we?
Speaker 1:support this mission, screaming from the rooftops.
Speaker 3:Screaming right. And you know what's interesting is, I spoke at the SEEDS convention in Orlando and there was agencies and law firms and everything associated with surrogates and every single agency was like we need this, this is what we need, this is what we're missing. Like we don't have any weight, like obviously loss happens but we don't even know what to do when it happens. Like where do we go? And to know that, like to have the comfort to say we have something for you and it is right here and you are going to get the help you need. Right now. It's word of mouth and that has been what you ladies are doing with the podcast and spreading the word and getting it out there that there is a resource. My goal for London is the reason is to get these boxes into every single hospital and agency in the world so that and I hope they collect dust, I hope they sit there and are never used, collect dust. I hope they sit there and are never used.
Speaker 2:I unfortunately had to send five boxes to an agency just last week. Five To one agency.
Speaker 3:To one agency. So it's happening more and more and more and I think the more that surrogacy becomes more known, the more losses that we're going to have. Because when I went through surrogacy I didn't even know what it was. I literally was like what is this? Someone else can hold your baby? That is like incredible. Now I feel like it's second nature. They're like, oh, surrogacy, oh yeah, hold your baby. That is like incredible. Now I feel like it's second nature. They're like, oh seriously, oh yeah. Yeah, I've heard of that, um, but we're not prepared for what might? We're just prepared. Like I said, you just think it's a done deal. You just think that you're paying for a product, it's a business transaction. And here you go, here's your baby. You know, and we're talking 39 weeks because they know that that's more common.
Speaker 3:But the more common is becoming a little bit later, unfortunately, and a lot of doctors just don't know why, um, and that's, that's kind of an issue, yeah, um, and everybody that I talked to has a new story, which I think in itself is very helpful to know that, like it's not just one common thing that's leading up, but then it's also like okay, but how do we stop this?
Speaker 2:Like things that you could step on, that that this could happen to you in so many myriad ways, and it's not like you can solve this one problem and then prevent it.
Speaker 1:It's, it's not like you can solve this one problem and then prevent it. It's a slew of, and there's the unknowns, and I think that's really just the part that's hard wrapping your mind around.
Speaker 2:You don't know.
Speaker 1:You just don't know yeah.
Speaker 2:I love that. I love that there's so much, there's so much value in that. Thank you so much. Thank you for creating this, Thank you for channeling your grief into something that is going to impact so many lives, for you know how, how forever, forever and to come forever. So thank you for that.
Speaker 3:Of course. Well, thank you guys so much for having me. I am always so grateful when people want to hear my story and hear London's story and know that we're out here and we're here to help and to make a change. So it's people like you that take the time, that are going to help others. So, thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you for doing us the honor.