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Surrogacy Is a Podcast
Surrogacy Is a Podcast
Mean Tweets & Surrogacy Share with Experienced Surrogate, Lael Collins
Meet Lael, an experienced surrogate and social media personality, who turns what once seemed strange into a journey of unexpected rewards and genuine fulfillment. Inspired by her friend Brittany, Lael’s surrogacy adventure holds authenticity, camaraderie, and a heartfelt enthusiasm that will captivate you from the get-go.
This episode takes you deeper into the world of surrogacy from a surrogate's perspective, where personal stories and real connections paint a picture far different from stereotypes. Hear how Lael and others navigate initial fears and societal misconceptions, forming profound relationships with intended parents from diverse backgrounds. We also talk about the emotional toll and societal judgments surrogates face, proving their resilience and the joy they feel from helping create families.
Tune in for a discussion that talks about what it means to be a surrogate today AND watch until the end for a segment on mean tweets where we have this experienced surrogate share her candid responses to some of the most ridiculous surrogacy comments we've received! "We're not a black market hands-maid tale here!"
💜 Take our short 8-minute quiz to see if you qualify and change someone's life forever. https://surrogacy.is/life-changing-quiz/
💜 After you qualify, make sure to schedule a call with us so we can get you to the next steps in the process. We are all surrogates here, by the way, so we can answer any and all of your questions.
💜 Check out the requirements to become a surrogate: https://surrogacy.is/requirements/
💜 Learn more about the compensation & benefits: https://surrogacy.is/compensation/
💜 Surrogacy in the US: https://surrogacy.is/become-a-surrogate/
#SurrogacyIs #SurrogacyPodcast #Surrogacy #SurrogacyPodcast #SurrogacyIsAPodcast #SurrogacyRequirements #SurrogateFAQs #SurrogacyTalk #SurrogacyIsLove #SurrogacyJourney #SurrogacyAgency
Hi, hello, happy.
Speaker 2:Wednesday Halfway there Is that all I know. It's crazy. I uh, do you? Do you have that like that like threshold, where you hit a wall, where you've been on Zoom meetings for too long and you're like I'm going to scream and run away from this Like I cannot do this any longer?
Speaker 1:I'm done adulting for the day, uh-huh.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I just I start to feel like, um, when I have back-to-back meetings, I start to feel like I'm being held hostage and I want to like, like my fight or flight kicks in and I want to like, get out of here. I need to flee.
Speaker 1:I re. I remember those days when we were interviewing a lot and when we were doing that growth stage and we were doing these back-to-back interviews. I felt really bad for anybody on the other end of that who was getting the second to the last interview that we had done that day, and I'm sorry to anybody who was subject to that, because that wasn't. It wasn't you, it was us and no, yeah, it's exhausting but I'm not.
Speaker 1:I'm not my best well, I'm excited about this podcast um with Lael because, first of all, I am her biggest fan. I think probably the weirdo behind the scene that's like oh my god, you're so cool, I watch everything that you do. Stop it. I'm like no, but I really do. I think you're so cool.
Speaker 2:The thing that's funny, though, is that that's true for you, but you actually have a relationship with Lael and I don't. I have this like parasocial relationship with her, because I only see her videos and I only see her online, but I feel like I know her, so I totally am obsessed with Lael, and then she's going to come on and I'm going to be like hey girl, and she's going to be like I'm sorry, I think she's awesome because she's so like unapologetically herself and so authentic, sadly, is so rare and it's really special.
Speaker 2:It really stands out. So I can't wait to spend some time with her, and then maybe she'll feel like she knows me and then maybe I can be her friend too.
Speaker 1:I think she will want that. She is she and I'm excited for her to share more of the perspective of who cares. Do what you're going to do and make sure that it feels good and it makes sense and don't apologize. So it's good. I'm excited for everybody to get to know her. Probably she's got a lot of followers because she does have such a reach with what she's doing. She's fun and goofy and is real folding clothes, as she's talking about surrogacy and why this is something that made sense for her. So she's really relatable and I think everybody's going to see that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, let's bring her in, and I will try not to be creepy. Lael, you look like you're sitting in the principal's office right now. It's my room, just your face that. Look on your face. You're like I'm in trouble. Am I getting it? Are you going to call my mom?
Speaker 3:I've never been to. No, I was in the principal's office one time, once before we graduated, and he yelled at me because I didn't come get my ropes or whatever, cause I was a high honor student. I'm like I don't know. And he's like you should have been here. I'm like whatever.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 3:Pick your battles, buddy. He's the superintendent. Now some big wig, whatever.
Speaker 1:Love it. We are so excited to be connecting with you today. You're one of our favorite people and, well, I think I was sharing earlier one of the cool things that I remember about you, when we had presented this idea that we were going to have a few surrogates talk to different topics of surrogacy and I remember watching your videos and just like laughing, crying, laughing like the ugly, laughing because it was real, it was relatable. You were this other human that was just considering surrogacy. That was this weird idea that you had entered into. And then here you are advocating for surrogacy in the way that you are on journey number two, which blows me away, and I'm just so honored that we've been able to be a part of journey number one and journey number two. But before we get into that, maybe you can start by introducing yourself to our listeners, who don't know who you are and what made you decide to consider surrogacy, and start this process.
Speaker 3:So I'm Lael, if you don't know me, how dare you Just kidding. Yeah, my friend Brittany. She came up with the. Well, she didn't come up with the idea, but she had been playing with the idea of being a surrogate and talking to her husband about it and bouncing ideas off of me like I should be on her side. I was like, no, that's kind of crazy, really it is. And then the more she talked about it, the more I was like actually it doesn't seem that crazy. I have easing pregnancy, so I was like I could totally do that too.
Speaker 3:And then it became almost like a competition of who could get like through their journey first. I'm not saying I didn't win, but it was getting. Really. She had a rougher first journey and I had a really easy first journey. And now it's like it's the same thing, cause she's starting her second journey now too. And, um, no, it was just good. It was good and it was a lot more rewarding than I expected it to be. And this journey so far has been even more rewarding than the first, and we haven't even really gotten started yet. So yeah, it's kind of crazy how much it has changed my life, when I didn't even realize it was really a thing even a couple of years ago. I would have never considered it because I've never really even heard of it. So yeah, it's just wild to be here now.
Speaker 2:So thanks, brittany for bringing it up and getting the layout because you, like, I remember too when we first got your videos, when we there were like 10 and you were folding laundry and talking about surrogacy and then you were like driving in the car, school pickup and talking about it and just I don't know everything. Everybody's videos kind of looked the same. And then we saw yours and I was like, oh my God, she's amazing Like you have so many super fans. That surrogacy is that like you don't even know. And uh, I think it's funny because we all feel like we know you and you're like why are you looking at me?
Speaker 1:I'm just a person who doesn't want to be here that's the most funniest part of it is you. I think you came into this going no way am I doing that for you. And I said but you love me, right, and you're like yes, and you love Circus, e is right and you're like yes.
Speaker 2:And I said so, you'll do it right. And she's like yes, and you're such a natural and I love your, you're just um. There's a lot of. There's a lot of content about surrogacy. There didn't used to be, but there is now. There's a lot of people that are putting out content about surrogacy and a lot of it feels um, I don't know a little a little bit phony or inauthentic or, um, like people are saying what they want people to hear and are not just being authentic.
Speaker 2:And I feel like you, you bring this air of authenticity that makes it so much more relatable and I I love watching all of your content. I think my favorite one is with the baby bunny and you're like does it look like me? It's not my baby, it's really cute. I love it, but it's not mine.
Speaker 3:Right, yeah, right and that's what it felt like. I never worried that I was going to get attached to this baby because I was so done. I'm like, honestly, I wouldn't want to keep her. That's my worst fear. Is someone handing me a baby right now, but like it's just your? I held her and I was like yep, this is not mine at all, doesn't even look like me. It doesn't feel like mine. I don't want the responsibility the responsibility.
Speaker 2:I've done my part. The rest is up to you. Good luck, yeah.
Speaker 1:Sleepless nights. You got this, yeah yeah. So you found. So Brittany convinced you to consider surrogacy and then you were on board. Now then you guys found surrogacy is. I'd love for you to share a little bit about that experience you connected with Surgacy is. What were those steps and how did that process feel for you and that experience?
Speaker 3:I was at work. So I was at I work night shifts a lot and we weren't doing anything at the moment and she was telling me oh, I just finished this quiz. And so I Googled it and I was like, oh, no, kidding. And so I did it all out. And then I panicked when it came like put in your email or your contact information, whatever it's like, do I really want to do this right now? And I think I actually waited. And then a few hours later, I just did it again and then put my contact information in and I think it got a hold of me the next day. I was like, oh, I should probably tell my husband that I did this, probably tell him I'd have this idea. Yeah, and then you called me Casey and I talked to you for I don't know, probably an hour almost.
Speaker 3:Um, on my bathroom floor, my little vanity floor, and I was just laying there talking to you and I was like I really want to do this now, just hearing just the very little bits I got at the beginning and, um, yeah, I can't believe how much that impacted me, just that little bit, and I was like, no, I, I want to do this. This seems I could do this, I can do this, um. And then so I was telling my husband about it and he was just so against it immediately. I'm like no, but I talked to this lady and she told me all these things and he's like you're going to die. Why they always think you're going to die. But um, it didn't take me very long to change his mind. I was like listen, you know, talk to him about our kids and what we would have done if we couldn't have them. And so I mean, and now he like before we had our first baby, he's like wouldn't you want to do this again?
Speaker 1:Yes, I remember you called me.
Speaker 3:You're like but it was nice to see him get as much reward out of it, and so he's like invested in this journey too, and him and our IF get along very well and it's just funny to see them like talk to each other and stuff. So it's, it's been good for both of us, but yeah wild.
Speaker 2:I think one of the things that's really neat about it is those relationships that happen with people that you otherwise never would have crossed paths with. Right Like the intended parents that I carried for, I think they're so special and I just love knowing that they're in the world and that they're parents, but I never would have just met them in my regular day-to-day life.
Speaker 2:My first parents are gay dads in Australia Like there's no way that we ever would have been connected and now I just I feel so rewarded and meeting their um parents on FaceTime and stuff to the grandparents of the baby and just be like, wow, there's just like so many great people in the world. It honestly makes me feel sometimes the world feels really ugly and awful and not a good place to be and I feel like there are lots of things that happen in surrogacy that make me feel like the world's not so terrible. There are good people. You know I'm happy to be part of positive change.
Speaker 3:Right and we had. We had that exact conversation when we met with our IF, because we met him. We got to meet him in person in kind of like a weird situation based on his job. But we're sitting there and he's like I would have never expected to be sitting here today, but because we had this struggle, we get to meet you guys and he goes and you guys are so cool, which made me feel really good because he's super cool, right, and so I was like this is kind of crazy and we're just like sitting in this spot and it's like it would have never happened, and so just like that moment alone was so wild.
Speaker 3:But to hear him say it I mean he cause he is really cool just to hear how humble he was, made me feel like I really want to do this for you guys and like I love his wife. I talk to her every day, and so it was just um, I've been able to spend a lot of time with her, so it was just kind of crazy, because even our first um set of intended parents like we would have never ever talked to them because we're not like businessy, you know. So it's just wild to get these different aspects in the world that come together with situations like these. So it's kind of wild to see it that way too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and there's so many misconceptions. I think you hit on that right with your husband having kind of this fear immediately, and I think I remember my husband having those same concerns like, well, tell me why we should do this. And sharing that, those kind of balancing out all of the steps that are taken as a surrogate that you have to go through to make sure it's safe for you to do this Right, and I think it's that educational piece that we get to bring to our spouses or our friends and allow them to understand we're not doing something so off the wall crazy. There's a lot that goes into this as an agency to make sure that those experiences are safe and that you guys are having this really great experience. What are some of the misconceptions? You feel like you hurdles misconceptions in your first journey that you thought, okay, this is a reason why I'm maybe not considering it, but we're quickly washed away in entering to the journey.
Speaker 3:I think my own reserve was that other people would judge me for some reason. My mom was upset at the idea at first, and then, at the same time, I don't actually care what you think. I'm going to do it anyway, cause I'm a very private person, like I didn't tell hardly anybody, right? If someone found out it's because my husband told them, or a kid like I didn't tell a lot of people. And when people found out, like at work, they're like, oh, I thought you were done. I was like, well, it's not mine. And then they would get this like what do you mean? It's not your? Like, what are you talking about? And then more people are like, oh, that's actually really cool that you would do that. And then they would have all these questions like about the parents or like why I'm doing it, but they like no one.
Speaker 3:I never really got like a oh, you're a horrible person type of vibe from anybody personally. So, um, but that was my thing. Or like people going to think I'm weird and really I'm a weird person anyway, so why did I care to begin with? But, um, yeah, a lot of people just, and you know, you get this feeling that people think you're just selling off a baby. It's like it's not mine to begin with. I'm just cooking it. I'm just able to, like, carry it for this person who can't and like, if you're building a house, I'm not going to build a house, I'm going to hire someone to build it for me. It's still my house, I just didn't do the work. Like it's the same kind of idea. It's just happens to be more involved because it is a life and it's more magical and involves a lot more love and just hope and more things. But it's the same. Like I don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think people get a lot of I don't know. Yeah, I think people get a lot of one of the things that we see people worry about and I think, well, this is why you wouldn't be a good surrogate. That's okay that you feel that way. You wouldn't qualify for surrogacy because you feel that way. But if I hear comments or I see them on our Facebook all the time and we're always fielding these like really negative comments and but some of the things people say are I don't care if it's not my baby, I don't care if it's not my DNA, if I carried it for nine months and I give birth to that baby, I love that baby and I'm attached to it and it is mine. If I carried it and I gave birth to it, I just don't know how to. I don't know how to. I don't even know how to respond to something like that. Like, what do you say to somebody like that?
Speaker 3:I never felt that way, like it was wild, because you know you're pregnant. But I never felt like a connection, like with my own pregnancies, where I'm like, oh, I'm so excited to have this baby. With surrogacy, it's like I knew she wasn't mine, I, and it was like I would forget I was pregnant until I ran into something, cause I was huge, or you know, someone said something and be like what are you talking about? Oh, yeah, no, it's just she's just there or she's constantly moving. But it wasn't the same kind of feeling.
Speaker 3:And you know it's okay to love the baby. It's okay. Everyone loves babies. If I see a baby, you just you're going to protect that thing of like I saw some random lady running and she fell and her baby went flying. I'm going to try to catch it. That's just how we should be. And you're more likely to eat right or, you know, avoid doing certain activities if you're pregnant because you are loving on the baby, but that doesn't mean you love it in the same way. So it is like extreme babysitting where, yeah, I'm going to give this baby back, but I'm going to love it while I have it. That's okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's actually really healthy. It's actually really good. If you're indifferent to humanity of yeah, that would be more concerning too. But yeah, I just, I just don't understand that whole. Like I don't care if I gave birth to it and I carried it.
Speaker 1:I'm keeping it like well and I think it's really comes down to being right. I think there's a lot of women I talk with who think I'm not sure how I would feel in that, and I can tell you I've met thousands of women who've done this, who maybe had that first initial thought how am I going to react, how am I going to feel after I deliver? And all of them have that same conclusion that there is. You have built this relationship with these intended parents which is so special. Right In this experience you get to see them find out that they're pregnant and the joy that they see in that moment knowing maybe they've gone through so much to get to this place Like there's so much joy.
Speaker 1:I got in my journey experiencing those things through my intended parents' eyes, watching them see that ultrasound, watching them hear that first heartbeat and that I think at the end, when you deliver, you can't wait to see those parents be whole and do skin to skin and hold their baby. I never had that desire of like, oh well, I want to keep it. Now I've changed my mind. This is how I feel.
Speaker 3:No, I'm like I am so excited you guys are whole in this and you have your child and seeing them be, I felt like I don't want them to miss this because this is the part I'm super good at Right, like not to be like oh, I'm sorry you can't do this, but like I'm really good at this one part, right, like get this kid out fast and be like super amazing that I was able to do this so quick.
Speaker 3:And, um, I did have like I don't want to say I worried about it, but I was like will they feel a bond with their baby? Will they be like um as receptive to um, like not receptive, but like will they have the same like thing? Cause it's not like they were with me the whole time, you know but um, when their baby came out and just that her um the cord was wrapped around her neck and so the doctor cut it and like she comes out and you know the mom gets his baby like way quicker than she was supposed to, you know, cause there was like three steps skipped Right, and just watching her face, like she went through so many emotions so fast, I was like, yeah, that's her baby and she is like fully in this right now. So that was um cool to see and I felt bad that it was like a traumatic moment, but it was still very much um, it reaffirmed my like little moment of worry that she wouldn't have like a bond with her baby. But she totally did.
Speaker 3:And I was like okay, go go into the other room, enjoy your baby, have fun. I'm going to sit here with my doctor and realize how many people are here for the baby and not me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is weird in that moment when the baby comes out. I think of birth and I had C-sections for all three of my journeys, so I was like stuck on the table, you know, and then the baby comes out, the intended mom's there and she's with me and she's holding my hand, and then she's gone and the baby's in there. I'm just like, oh yeah, like I'm still a person. I have that moment of um, it's like a, it's like a 32nd moment of feeling really alone that I think I didn't expect after my last journey, cause it was during COVID and so my husband couldn't be in the room. It was her, we could only have one, and so I had it be her because she wanted to be there for her baby.
Speaker 2:But then that moment where I was alone, I was like I just started like crying uncontrollably, but it was. It wasn't something that like I'm sad about the baby or I'm sad about anything. It was just like this moment where I was like feeling really exposed, like my guts are open. I'm on this table, she was here and now she's gone and I'm like I want Kyle, like I'm alone, I want my husband, um, but it was. He came in like maybe 45 seconds later, but it felt in that moment I felt really kind of like suspended in time yeah, it was kind of weird.
Speaker 3:So like really, I mean, you know, because the first three times I've had kids, there's always tons of people in the room, but then they all left, everyone left. I was like, oh, it's just kind of wild, like, oh, this is what you guys do after a baby comes out, like I had no idea that all this other stuff happened because I was so distracted the first three times. So it's just kind of funny. Oh, you do do a lot of stuff, okay, you don't know. All right, what do I do with my hands? Like, oh, you do do a lot of stuff, okay, you don't know. All right, what do I do with my hands?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a weird. It's a weird feeling, it's a it's surreal, but I loved every. I loved it every time. It was pretty cool. I'm excited for you to have this second journey. I know your first journey was like compared to Brittany's, Everything happened really fast for you Match transfer, pregnancy, delivery, Everything happened. What? Almost before Brittany even got pregnant, right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was at the hospital. She came to visit me like the morning after and she was getting her beta done that day. So we found out together that she was like super pregnant this time on my delivery date. So it was super cool. And yeah, it was just so cool Cause, yeah, she came in, got her labs done and hung out with me and then, um, she left. And then we left in that, yeah, that was, you won that race. I did it started getting sad.
Speaker 2:I was like I don't want to say we're racing anymore, we're so invested.
Speaker 2:I was so invested in Brittany having success and then, when she finally got pregnant and had the baby, I was just like that's just like such a win such a victory and then now you're on this journey and now you're coming up with these challenges, so I'm sure it's probably really helpful for you to lean on her to talk through some of those things too. Do you guys talk about, like how, cause you've had a couple of hiccups on this journey so far? Do you want to talk about that, or how do you feel about it?
Speaker 3:Sure, yeah, and it's kind of wild Cause. I mean, my first journey, the only hiccup I had was just dealing with the insurance aftermath journey. The only hiccup I had was just dealing with the insurance aftermath. I would hate to be in insurance. Just it sounds horrible, like who grows up to want to do that. I don't know. But bless those people or not, first them, either way depends on the day. Um, but like she would have like low HCGs and that's what I had. Those are the right letters, right, hcg. It sounded weird.
Speaker 3:So for her first, like three transfers and then so like when my first numbers came up for my first transfer was like 13. I was like, oh, like I don't, I don't like that, that's not a good number for me. So like I talked to her about it, she's like, oh, you know, like that, that's not a good number for me. Um, so like I talked to her about it, she's like, oh, you know, like it'll if this is going to suck, but you can do it like we can do it again, you know. So she has like that we can do it again, um, superpower. So that has really, um, it helped me. And then my like IPs being so like we can do this again. It's fine. Like you know, it's just something that just happens, and I mean that happens with anybody trying to have babies. It just happens. It sucks, but it happens. So I mean we can't? We always hope for the best, but sometimes you just have to try a couple of times to get to the best.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, do you have another transfer coming up?
Speaker 3:I do. I actually go on for my lining tomorrow. Yeah, to see if it'll be Friday, like next Friday or the Friday after. So okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's a that's a misconception too is that it's gonna take on the first try and the hope that it is right. But there we see, like Brittany's situation where it was the fourth and now she has had this healthy, uncomplicated pregnancy that resulted from that. And I think that's really the perspective we should hold on to is just understanding that there's a lot more at play and sometimes it has nothing to do with us and there's just more variables that we're having to consider that quality of embryo, the doctor's protocol, like there's so many things that we have to take into consideration. But the fact that you want this so bad for these intended parents and I know they. I got to be a part of that match call and host it because I could see the love the antenna parents already had for you and vice versa, that connection. I was thinking afterwards. I don't know, I didn't get to be a part of your first match call, but I was really grateful that I got to be part of this one.
Speaker 3:I mean, like my first set of IPs, they were great. I'm thankful for them, but we definitely didn't have this kind of relationship that we do with this second set of intended parents, which I mean it's fine. Like I don't have a lot of emotional room for a ton of people in my life all the time, so I mean it was probably better that they were more distant, because then it allows me to be more invested in this journey, I guess. But yeah for sure, They've been so great and fun and they're just so cool. And yeah, she'll send me pictures of like her nieces and nephews getting snuggles. I'm like, oh, you'll get one too, Like of like her nieces and nephews getting snuggles.
Speaker 1:I'm like, oh, you'll get one too, like it'll be so cute. I think that's the thing that I want women who are considering surrogacy to know is that it's okay to ask, and maybe you don't know what you're looking for in this process, but it's okay to ask those things and take into consideration. Because I remember on your first journey you were so easygoing, lael, and you had said, well, I don't care, I'll help anybody, I'll help any type of intended parent. I just want to be able to do this. And so the agency matched you with intended parents and afterwards and you were still so you were like, yeah, it's great, I'm happy and I had a great experience. You had that right attitude. But I remember kind of thinking I want you to know what it is like to have intended parents really don't. After you remember me having that conversation with you and you're like, no, I don't really need it. And I go yeah, you do, and I. And now I want them to spoil you, I want to find you.
Speaker 3:You're like I have people that will spoil you and yeah, and it's funny because, like the first time I got, I mean they were just stricter. And thinking back now like I'm super easygoing they would have been tough to match if you were picky at all. Yeah, they just would have. Yeah. So, like me, not being picky at all made it easier, yeah, but then, like my second round was like no, if I'm going to do this again, it's going to be worth it, like in a different level. So it has been a lot more fun, yeah.
Speaker 1:So what would you tell a surrogate who's or a woman considering surrogacy things that she should be considering when she's choosing her agency and um and her match? Is there any kind of words of wisdom that you would recommend her consider when she's entering?
Speaker 2:If you could go back to early layout like what would you tell yourself?
Speaker 3:Um, I guess, like you don't necessarily have to accept the first thing that comes at you, you can. It's okay to be like nah, I'm not like fully into it. Or I mean, it's just okay to be just like, no, I'm not into it this time, or whatever. Cause it's not like there isn't so many options available. I'm not that picky, so I don't like just feed me food.
Speaker 1:What about your agency? So your first journey, what were the things in your journey that you really appreciated and, versus now in your second journey communication, the type of relationship you have with the agency, what are those things that you think are necessary for a surrogate to consider when she's looking at her agency options?
Speaker 3:So, like my first agency was okay with me, it was, was fun. I didn't have any real big issues some people did, unfortunately, with them and it was kind of weird like getting like so I had the baby and then it was like I almost didn't get any communication at all after that, unless I had, like an issue with insurance. But um, and then it, and then it was like I had to keep reaching out. And then it was funny Cause one of the gals was confused that I had swapped agency. She's like oh, I heard you were with Sarah Garcia, so I was like, well, yeah, she's like, oh, you didn't want to do another one with us. Like, well, for one I haven't heard from any of you guys at all, so whatever, and two, obviously, because they're way better. So and she's like that's fair, I agree, yeah, I didn't tell her that verbatim, but and it's like like I didn't have any issues with them, but I can see where a lot of people would have, because I'm not like send me an email, whatever. But some people do want like I text you, I want an answer back, and that's not something you would necessarily get from them. So when you're picking an agency, obviously if we're going through you guys, you vet them, and then, like we only hear good things about these agencies and if we don't, they get kicked out Right. And then, like we only hear good things about these agencies and if we don't, they get kicked out Right.
Speaker 3:So, like, if you get to that point, you're like, okay, I have these choices, they're obviously all good, but now you can talk to them and like, maybe you like this lady that you talk to just a little better than you like this lady she made you laugh more, or whatever Then go with them. It's okay to just go with whatever makes you feel good at the time or not. You can skip them if you get some weird feeling and you're like, nah, if she said something that I didn't like, that's okay to skip out on them too. So, yeah, and sometimes it comes down to what kind of things, um, you feel like you need to like with you guys.
Speaker 3:We get our like monthly check-ins with the I don't want to call her a psych lady, but like the licensed marriage and family therapist, yeah, and I I love talking to her just a few minutes every month. Be like, hey, this is what's going on and I'll send you an email when I find this out or whatever. So that's really cool, and some people do need that. They need to talk through whatever issues they're having. So it's nice that you guys offer that and not every place does so if you feel like you need some more support, maybe you should have that on your list of things that you need, or other things like you like massages. Some agencies have like packages that offer that and some don't. So, like, reading through that list of what they offer could also be what you're comparing and what helps you decide on which way to go.
Speaker 1:So yeah, and for the listeners that don't know so, lael, one of the things that we do at Surrogacy is on our advocacy site is we will actually get on that phone with you. Understand what it is that's important to you. I think that's what I did with you, lael was just understand what are you looking for in your journey. And you didn't really have any desires, but what we wanted to do was make sure that you were with an agency that was going to support you on your journey. And we've narrowed down our agencies because even if an agency says, yeah, I'm doing all of the things right, I follow the American Society of Reproductive Medicine, I'm going to make sure my surrogate has life insurance and escrows fully funded, sometimes those things aren't done.
Speaker 1:And then, as the advocates in us Sunshine, kyle and I we've eliminated agencies that really maybe they're doing everything right, but they're just not communicating with the surrogate regularly enough. Then we'll have eliminated them from our program, because I know for me and Sunshine, we've made a promise to you guys that you're going to have a good experience. So if that's not something, that ultimately we have an agency that's holding to that promise, we don't want to work with that agency. But then the nice thing is is you get options, you get choices in that. So, being presented a few agencies and looking at your options and understanding what kind of support, where their parents are located, their benefit packages, the type of support that they're going to offer as the agency, those are things that now you get in your control to ask those questions and figure out, kind of the same way that you're saying, lael, that you didn't have any preferences. You were really easygoing and kind of ready to just get this process started. But I want women to know that they have those choices.
Speaker 2:So yeah, and that's okay. Like I think it's less common probably to be as easygoing as you are, although I think your temperament and personality is almost the perfect ideal temperament for a surrogate, because so much flexibility and patience and optimism is required to get through this journey, because things don't always go your way and there are so many parties involved, from legal to psych, to the IVF clinic and the agency and the intended parents and the insurance and the OB and all of those things that have to happen. If you're not flexible as a surrogate, you are in for a world of suffering and misery because you have to go with the flow. If you don't go with the flow, the flow will break you and that will break a match and it will be a miserable experience. But it doesn't mean you have to be so flexible to the point where you're a people pleaser, because you also have to be able to advocate for yourself if something is uncomfortable or something doesn't feel right. And there's the finding that balance.
Speaker 2:And I think when we were first looking at your agency options this was back in the day when it was brand new and Casey and I talked about every surrogate, every profile that came through we'd be like, okay, let's look at her, what are her options? What's important to her and for you? I think we were like she doesn't care about any of these things, she has no preferences, so let's just try and find her the highest compensation and that was what we went for for you and for some people. I think. A lot of times surrogates are lured by benefit packages that are high and they think, well, this is high compensation, so it's going to be great.
Speaker 2:And then what we would notice happening with agencies that were offering just a high compensation was their only real unique value proposition was we were noticing this pattern of people complaining or feeling left in the dark or feeling dehumanized. And so then we're thinking she got maybe 10,000, $15,000 more in her benefit package. But for some women they were like I would have paid $15,000 not to be with this agency and to have known what was going on and to be, you know, supported. So I think it was what matters to you is different for everyone, and I think it's so cool that we have the opportunity to give options and say, hey, this agency does offer a really high comp, but they're only going to communicate with you via email and you're probably, they're probably not going to remember you and they wouldn't be able to pick you out of the crowd. At least you know that and you've chosen that. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and especially when you're going to this, it's not like I even knew a lot about surrogacy to begin with when I started, and then it's just wild because now I've done it, so you know what to expect, you know what you're looking for, you do have better ideas.
Speaker 3:So then, like, the surrogacy is where everybody's done it at least once, except for, you know, lazy Kyle and Alex, and it's cool to get like all your perspectives and it's helpful to talk to someone who's done it, uh, two or three times, or even four, I think some people crazy, crazy. So that is helpful to new women who are like, oh, I have this crazy idea, I want to be a surrogate, but it's like, ok, well, let's talk about what it actually involves, because it is insane how much is involved in such a short amount of time. Really, like your first 10 weeks or 12 weeks, I guess, is so crazy busy and then all of a sudden it slows down a little bit. You're like, oh, thank god I can breathe, but now I can't because I'm too pregnant, you know. So it's. It is so wild to think about and it's like my first journey was only started two and a half years ago and it's crazy how much my life has changed drastically and yet not at the same time.
Speaker 2:It's weird.
Speaker 3:Do you have any?
Speaker 1:regrets. No, you said your mom wasn't necessarily on board, but she came around and I love the story that you shared with me about that. Can you share that she came around and I love the story that you shared with me about that.
Speaker 3:Can you share that? Like when I first told her, I was like, oh, she's going to like this idea. I know how to make a lot of money. She was the vibe I went for and she was like, uh, hate that idea. You know she's listed all these crazy things that were going to happen to me. I was going to get, you know, cancer from the drugs and.
Speaker 3:But I didn't know that my aunt had tried IVF, but like 20 years ago, 25 years ago, where you know you had to lay down immediately after for three days, type of thing, and like it's changed so much now. But she was talking to her coworker about it, kind of trying to get like be on my side, I don't like my daughter doing this idea. And my mom's coworker started crying and she's like I can't believe your daughter would do this for someone. That's amazing, you know, because she had, I think, her sister or something struggling with infertility and so she thought it was so cool and so like loving that I would even consider doing that. My mom was like, well, great. So now I have to, you know, rethink this because like yeah, she did not get the response from her that she expected.
Speaker 3:So then she started like asking more questions and warming up to the idea. And then, um, watching how the first journey ended, she thought it was pretty cool. And then she's like, actually it is pretty cool and she would talk to like, like she talked to my aunt about it, my aunt thought it was super cool. And so when everyone else around her didn't give her the response she expected, she's like okay, well, I guess I was the only one who was like super worried about it. It was just really funny to watch her accept it. Now she'll ask a lot of questions about these guys and like oh, what are you guys doing now? Like what are you waiting for? Like what's happening?
Speaker 1:I think that's the most special. I think because I didn't ever get any negative like naysayers, necessarily. But I had people who would say stuff like, oh, I wouldn't never do that or I couldn't see myself for doing that, and that's okay. But I had even given the perspective the other day to a mom who her daughter is struggling with fertility and she's like, wow, that must have been really hard. How did you figure out that you wanted to do this? And then, how did you do this? I had just said to her I said do you have kids? And she said, yeah, I have a daughter. I had just said to her I said do you have kids? And she said, yeah, I have a daughter. And I go and is your daughter have kids? And you could see her get quiet and you could see the sadness on her face and she's like they're trying. And I said I want to make.
Speaker 1:I did surrogacy because I want there to be a grandma out there who gets to be a grandma, because I know you probably see your daughter and that sadness that your daughter is having this struggle is heartbreaking. I get to say that I have the opportunity to help in that way. How cool is that and just sharing that perspective and watching, just literally in that moment, her face go yeah, there are people out there who are willing to make that decision, that this is something they want to consider, and I would do it again and again, and again and again if I could right, I'm retired, I can't do it any longer, but just seeing those parents and knowing the impact that we have on that family and that family's family is so much bigger than any one of us, which is really neat and seeing those people come around you know even your husband basically signing you up for journey number two.
Speaker 3:Here you are on journey number two because I know if he had your number he would have been, like you know, January. What's up, lady? Like she's four weeks out.
Speaker 2:I'm so jealous of you guys, man, I had nothing but naysayers in my life when I decided to do surrogacy. It's such a good thing that I'm not a people pleaser, because I totally would have allowed myself to be talked out of it, but I am more, um, I don't know like I'll do it with spite rather than listen. This is what I'm doing and you'll see. You know, but there were so many people that had such negative reactions and I think part of it, too, was my own naivete in the way that I explained it to people, or why I was motivated to do it. Cause, like you, like the way that you said you told your mom I have an idea of how I'm going to make a lot of money. Right, like. That sounded like a great idea for me when I decided to do surrogacy.
Speaker 2:I was like I was trying to just figure out like I was living in Southern California. My husband was working really hard, I was teaching, he was running a computer repair company. We were working so hard and we were not coming up with any extra money to put a down payment and buy a home, and it was like I got to get creative. Do I have any extra hours in the day to get a part-time job. No, but this is a thing that I could do and it'll be a good thing, like it's a good thing that I'd be doing for someone and get extra money. Like win, win, win, right.
Speaker 2:But when I presented it to my best friend, to my sister, to my mom, they were like that's kind of gross that you would do that just to buy a house. I'm like, wow, that's a really awful way to simplify everything that I just said. But like that's all you took out of it. But I got so much of that reaction and so now I think I think people have this expectation of women to do everything selflessly, have this expectation of women to do everything selflessly, whereas if I had told them that this was something that I wanted to do and that compensation was not involved, they might have been so much more supportive. But because I was motivated by the compensation, I think they wanted to like make that bad somehow. Does that make sense? Like it sucks.
Speaker 3:And it's wild to think that someone would say that because if you were like, yeah, I'm doing this for someone for free, they'd be like no one could pay me enough to do that, for, like, you can't have it both ways. Okay, yeah, you just can't, and it's okay because, um, in reality, if, say, you were doing it for free, those parents would want to do something so bad for you for you doing this for them, that they would be like offering anything they could, which the easiest way would be to they would probably put a down payment on your house, whether or not you wanted it, you know like they would probably do something like that for you anyway. So it's just that, yeah, and some people do do it for free for their friend or, you know, their sister or whatever, and that's fine too, but you know that they be getting something out of it in a different way. They just would be because they would be so thankful that they would want to give you something for it, and I also feel like it's.
Speaker 2:It's kind of um, it's kind of an unreasonable ask of anyone, whether it's your sister or your best friend or anyone, to put their body through what they do with.
Speaker 2:IVF and pregnancy and childbirth and postpartum and recovery, like all of that, for no compensation. It feels to me that that would be taking advantage of somebody's kindness because they maybe didn't fully realize, getting into it, what it was going to be. I can't travel, I can't do this Like, I can't do any of the normal things that I want to do and my body's going through. Like you know, ivf is not fun. I know we talk a lot about how rewarding this process is and how incredible and how amazing, and it's definitely worth it, but it's not all fun. Like.
Speaker 2:There are hard parts, there are struggles and challenges and even the emotional rollercoaster that you go on when you do an embryo transfer and you have a beta. That's not what you want it to be that sense of like, sadness, just disappointment and sadness, and and no matter how rational we are, we still like, even though we can shoo these thoughts away for the most part, there's still that element of like, self blame and and feeling guilty, or you know, there's just. It's such an emotional rollercoaster, it's physical, it's such an emotional roller coaster, it's physical, it's emotional, it's time. There's so much investment that we put in to become a surrogate that I feel like asking anybody to do that without compensation is kind of predatory. That's my opinion.
Speaker 1:Well, and you know there's so many hoops you have to jump through as a surrogate, the time that you're missing from work, the opportunity I think you had shared that so long ago and I was like, yeah, you, and if you're in a job and you're having now to take off time for medical screening, embryo transfer, and then what if you get put on bed rest, that's time that has been taken away from you. Potentially growing in that position kind of puts it on a pause, so that opportunity for that growth is put on hold and that, even in its own is is kind of a big deal too.
Speaker 2:That opportunity cost, you know.
Speaker 3:Well, and then it's like it's a 24 hour job, right For however long, really to eat, right to exercise, to not go skydiving. Like you expect me to do all these things, you know, and really, so, like with regular surrogacy, if you don't necessarily know the person, I want to give you something. So at least, maybe, because you're doing this for money, then maybe you'd be more willing to put down the soda and pick up a bottle of water or whatever. So like with my first journey, they wanted me to eat organic. I'm like, okay, sure, like you're paying me to eat organic, I'll eat organic.
Speaker 3:Sure, so I mean it's only fair to expect something for the work and stuff you're doing. I mean I'm not physically well, yes, you are very physically doing work, but you know you're not, like I don't know, like a regular job doing something, but it is something you have to think about. Um, for the duration of your pregnancy is, I have to make sure I don't do these things and do do these things. You know you have to take your prenatals every day and like avoid coffee. And you know like maybe I can't have the beer I wanted today because I had a bad day, but like you can't expect someone to necessarily do all that stuff for you just because they feel like it today, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I wouldn't ask anybody to do that for me.
Speaker 3:Like I wouldn't expect anybody to do that for me if I wasn't going to give them something in return. Yeah, I wouldn't ask anybody to do that for me, like I wouldn't expect anybody to do that for me if I wasn't going to give them something in return.
Speaker 1:Yeah, really no, this process is big and I think that's the takeaway is really just understanding that it's okay to go into this process and being excited that this might elevate your own family in a way. That's really special and you also get to help somebody at the same time. So it is a win-win and I love it. You know, even more I think I went into this with this idea.
Speaker 1:I had a friend who struggled with infertility and I couldn't make sense of how this was happening to her. She was in her twenties. We were both in our twenties and now I am entering to this process of educating other women on why, if I had you on the line saying you were not going to receive compensation, you wanted to do this for free, I would say absolutely not, but it's because I know what you are going to be investing. That time that goes into this process, the medication protocol prior and after embryo transfer there's a lot that goes into this and I think that it's significant and it's really great that we have intended, and I think that it's significant and not and it's really great that we have intended parents who have the ability to have this as an opportunity and we want to just respect it as a whole.
Speaker 2:So and bring, and the loss of autonomy too, like I. I remember it was really hard for me and I've seen others deal with something similar when, say, you have a loss in the family, you have a death in the family and you're at a certain point in your pregnancy and there's a funeral and it's in another state and you can't travel, like that is um, that's one of those things that I think you don't anticipate as a potential thing. That is going to cost you. But not being able to go and be with family when there's a loss because you're 26 weeks and you can't travel further than 150 miles from your home, that's hard, that's a cost that it can't really be repaid. But you can't violate your contract and sometimes parents will make an exception. Sometimes they'll say you know what I contract, and sometimes parents will make an exception. Sometimes they'll say you know what I understand, that's fine, you can go, we'll make a plan. But sometimes they're not flexible and you're beholden to your contract. So that's another thing that I think I forget as a potential.
Speaker 2:When people are like what could go wrong, tell me all the worst things, cause that's how I was when I wanted to do surrogacy I was like, okay, tell me the bad things. What's the bad, what's the ugly? I need to know Could I, could I deal with that If it happened to me like worst case scenario? What are the worst case scenarios? Can I, am I comfortable taking that risk? Um, and that's one of the things that I recently has come up a couple of times and I thought that's something that people should consider when they're going into this, like you really are putting your life on hold for a period of time and you say that's okay because you're not.
Speaker 2:You like, you can put off vacations and stuff like. Putting off vacations is fine, Especially if at the end you're going to have some compensation and you can afford to go on a way better vacation. But sometimes there are things that come up that are not expected and you have to maybe sacrifice something that you didn't anticipate.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and that's one of the things about Cersei is you can't you cannot even begin to list all the things that could possibly go wrong, or if they will go wrong with you, or if they're all going to happen to this other poor girl, like everything on the list. It's just all going to happen to her and you can't anticipate any of that, which is one thing that makes this experience unique to everyone, and you know it can either make it more rewarding. Like you know, there's some people that are like I wish someone told me that you know all this, like I could hate this and you could hate it. You could absolutely hate this, but you're not going to. Unfortunately, you're not going to know unless you try it you're not going to.
Speaker 1:Unfortunately, you're not going to know unless you try it. And more times than not, these women who do it love it. You know. I will say, in going on, you know, close to 16 years in this industry, I've met a lot of women who are surrogates and I can tell you I don't know one woman that didn't decide to do it again for a second journey, as long as she was allowed to. Right, if there had been a complication at the end of the pregnancy, maybe she had preeclampsia and she's not able to and it's not safe. Never will she be approved because we want to make sure it's safe and that's why those safeguards are in place.
Speaker 1:But everybody who has done surrogacy at least once wants to do it again or plans to do it again. So that's something that says something. You or plans to do it again. So that's something that says something you know about this process and really how beautiful it is. Even if there are those bumps and hiccups, you overcome those with your team and you can see that intended parents so grateful for everything that you've done thus far. It's huge, it's a big deal, you know.
Speaker 2:So yeah, and you learn a lot about how strong you are Like. You learn a lot about what you're capable of. I learned a lot about myself in the process of doing surrogacy that I didn't know Even just in learning how to stand up for myself when people were saying negative things to me and not letting that stuff affect me and holding boundaries. And I learned a lot about myself that I'm really grateful for and and being a surrogate, and and now look, I mean this is my whole, it's like my whole personality.
Speaker 2:now I was like I'm. I was a surrogate, Like once you are a surrogate, you're always, it's a, it is a sisterhood that we like, we'll always be connected, you know, to other surrogates, in that way that we just know something special that other people don't.
Speaker 3:I've gotten my butt that I quickly forget how annoying those knots were until you have to do it again. You're like, oh yeah, this does suck. Push away just, yeah, those sucky moments for your reward at the end which is probably why we even have more than one kid because, yeah, it's a sucky day Delivery day sucks until you have the baby and then it's the best day ever, right and yeah. So it's funny how quickly we forget like the little negatives that go into any process like this for sure. So, yeah, like the knots are now just barely gone and I'm going to be starting up here next week again and then we'll be back.
Speaker 1:And then you'll forget about them, and then you'll be back for journey number three, or maybe your husband will be knocking at the door for dirty Right.
Speaker 3:I'm going to be at her house. I know where she lives. We'll be texting RIF you want a little sibling for that one? Yeah, setting it up for you. He's already asked me already Would you do this again for them? I'm like, I mean, I guess he's like yeah, he's like already preparing.
Speaker 2:It's so funny. My husband was the same way, like my first journey. He did not want to do it and he very reluctantly agreed and was like, okay, well, um, it's going to ruin our life, but if you really want to do it, that's fine, and you know you'll see his second personality too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and in my second journey he was like all about it. And then the third one I actually wasn't going to do, I wasn't going to do a third one and my intended mother from my second journey she had matched with another surrogate and they had some things come up that she had trouble trusting that surrogate and she was feeling really discouraged and she was calling me saying like this is what she said. She said she's afraid of doing injections and that she'll try and and so I'm like really scared that she's going to not like it and then she's going to stop doing the progesterone and then she's going to miscarry, you know. And I was like, yeah, this is not the, this is not a situation where you can say I'll try if you will or you will not like you can't say I'll try.
Speaker 3:You have a job at this point and you got to do it. It might take you a half hour to get that first one in, but after that then I just you just feel dumb, like I mental suffered for that long for nothing. Yeah, so she was just like I just can't move forward with this.
Speaker 2:And so you know she's like I need to, I need to do, I need to find another surrogate. And Kyle was like why don't you just do it? Like why don't you just do it? You're a C-office. I don't wanna. I already had two C-sections. I don't want to do it again. I'm old, I was 39.
Speaker 3:So she did it again, but I did, I did do it again.
Speaker 2:And I was, it was, was, it was great and it was. But it was just so funny because he was like come on and I was like, well, she wants me to not travel or like go outside, because it was during COVID, like she wanted a lot of restrictions for COVID, and he's like, just do what she says, just do what she wants, just don't, you know, let it make, let make it happen. It's like who are you?
Speaker 2:It's second personality now it's like she, you, you know, like cause we had come through a lot in our, in our journey, first journey together as far as, like building trust and, um, she had a lot of fear and so we, we overcame a lot and I just remember thinking like I don't want her to have to go through that again with somebody else.
Speaker 2:I don't want another surrogate to have to go through that either, like we already built so much together that it makes sense and I'm so glad because her I learned, like I felt like in our first journey I was resistant because I felt that she was trying to control me and this was pre COVID, um, but she was trying to control the situation because she had a lot of fear and trauma associated with her own pregnancy and birth and so she wanted things to be just so and I wasn't.
Speaker 2:The agency that I was with didn't do a good job of helping me understand her perspective and to sympathize with her and to understand where she was coming from and and why she was being this way and not take things personally, because I was taking things personally that weren't personal and I wish in our, in our last journey together, I got to understand her so much better and she was so much more safe and comfortable and I wished that I had been more patient with her in our first journey because I feel like I I I didn't understand where she was coming from. And then I learned and that was like one of those opportunities where I was like you know what? I'm the asshole.
Speaker 3:I'm the problem.
Speaker 2:It's me, yeah, it was me. Oh no, I mean, I mean it was, it was definitely, it was definitely both of us, but I was able to recognize, like what my part was in it, and that's always and that agency has a huge role in this.
Speaker 1:You know, I think that's the biggest takeaway that we've been able to implement in our process now is having a moment to go and connect with our surrogate or our intended parent If they're having a request. That maybe seems a little unreasonable, Understanding why are they coming to us with that request I mean, what's that backstory? And then being able to share it with the other party and giving them the tools to be successful on their journey. Because if he had had that Sunshine, that would have probably made so much of a different difference in that journey and how that would have developed, at least in the very beginning.
Speaker 2:So I think that's cute and if they would have given her the support to, to help her feel that she could trust, like I think um so much of running an agency and being involved in this is being willing to have hard conversations with people and be real.
Speaker 2:And I think what happens a lot of times with agencies is they want to please the parent and they want to please the surrogate. So they're great at validating your feelings to you. Know that's. I understand where you're coming from, that your feelings are valid, but then not that second step, which is your feelings are valid, but can I offer you another perspective and can I help you understand where this is coming from? Like, are you open to seeing this from a different perspective? Because not everybody wants to have those hard conversations. I know I'm not super great at having those hard conversations, which is why I don't like I'm not the one that anybody goes to and they're like hey, this surrogate or intended parent is feeling this way, sunshine, can you talk to them? It's like, no, that's not me, that's not my.
Speaker 3:My name is Sunshine, not Lightning Bolt.
Speaker 2:No, I can't, I can't. No, casey says I'll do it. I'm excited, I'll do it. I'm like, do they need somebody to be super direct and blunt and inconsiderate Because I'm your girl? But Casey is the one who can like really bring that empathy and perspective and just like it. Not so necessary, I think. And a lot of agencies are not able to offer that. Maybe they wish they were, maybe they think they are, but a lot of times they're just missing the mark.
Speaker 3:Well, I remember when I was doing my contracts this with the second journey like I hadn't talked to the IPs since our match meeting. So we went months without saying anything to each other because we weren't able to communicate. And then so like the hospital I've had my other babies at is not, they don't have like a level one NICU or level two, whatever it is, they don't have one. There's another hospital that does close by. I just don't like, literally I don't like the color scheme of the place. Okay, I just don't.
Speaker 3:Um, the only reason why I don't like it up there it's not, but anyway but, like they, it was really important for the IPs, for them because, um, he was born prematurely that in, just in case they want a hospital that just has a NICU, which is fine, um, but Casey called me. She's like no, this is why they want this. Like you need, if you want to do this, this is you have to do it this way. I was like, yeah, I mean, it's fine, I'm not against it, but, um, I just want to have my own OB for a little while. So we made this compromise where I would have my OB till what? 30 weeks and then I swapped to the OB that's up at that next hospital so that I can have the baby up there, where they do have the NICU and they are closer to other bigger things, just in case.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a lot of agencies, I'm realizing, do want and require a level two or three NICU for the surrogate to deliver. And the real reason is is it's rare for something to go wrong, but when it does go wrong it goes really wrong. If a surrogate the cords wrapped around the baby's neck several times and baby gets stuck and without oxygen. We want to make sure that those those life-saving tools and equipment are there for that, that pregnancy afterwards and then for you too, right? So it's really that necessity to know that if it were to likely it won't, but if it did, you want to have those resources and I've seen it go right a lot of times. But I've seen it go wrong two times and in those two moments that made me say I never want anybody to be without those tools. So we want to make it a requirement every time to support and make sure.
Speaker 1:It isn't always easy. You have to change your OB sometimes and those things suck and there's compromise in that. But I want the best outcome. I want a surrogate who ends this journey healthy, safe and happy. I want the pregnancy, the baby, to be healthy. I want these parents to be whole in what they have set out for, and so if you're willing to do those things and see that perspective, it changes. It changes kind of the what ifs and are you comfortable with that? And yeah, I think I am, but maybe you're not, and then maybe surrogacy isn't something for you, you know, or maybe you're willing to take that risk. I know I'm not for you or any of the women that we do. I want all of you guys to be safe and I'll have that on my conscience too. That's the other thing. It's like these parents don't want to have to sit with. Something could have done. It could have been different had we had done that extra step. So why not just have it in place to protect everybody?
Speaker 3:so why not just have it in place to protect everybody, yeah, make everyone feel just safer in that moment. And that's what we all want is the ending to be everyone's just okay and happy and healthy and we can all, just, you know, go home and just be happy in our little happy world because we did it the right way the first time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it it, it is. It is rare, but it is. It's the risks that that first thing our husbands think of. Right Like when you tell them you want to be serious, you're basic. Basically you're going to. You're telling me that you're willing to die for this. I'm like, no, that's not what I'm saying.
Speaker 3:Every time I go to the store I'm willing to die technically.
Speaker 2:So think about that next time you want milk. Okay, that's what I told my husband because I was driving. I was I was teaching at a school that was kind of in a rural area and I had to drive on this like windy road that had a reputation for being like really deadly the 67 in in San Diego and I was like I drive this way to work every day and you're never like you shouldn't take that road. You should take the 45 minute longer route and go the other way and not take that road because it's too risky. But you don't want me to carry a pregnancy which is like way less risk than driving on the 67 every day, which I've already done so it was fine the first three times.
Speaker 2:So he was like oh, you're right, it's about perspective. Well, and I think I remember, do you want to do our mean tweet? Segment, because we could just go on and on and talk forever.
Speaker 3:We're all here for this one thing we haven't done. It's like going to the store for milk and getting everything else except milk.
Speaker 2:I don't know how I ended up at HomeGoods.
Speaker 1:We've got a lot of really fun mean tweets that we wanted you to read. I'm going to grab the first one, Sunshine, and drop it in here on the message board and have you read it.
Speaker 2:Okay, and I'm going to pick the next one.
Speaker 1:Yep In the chat here on this. Okay, I just sent you this chat, so read that and then tell us your thoughts.
Speaker 3:Read it out loud Women wouldn't do surrogacy if they weren't paid. Therefore, it preys on lower class women because of the financial aspect. Women's bodies aren't for rent and babies aren't for sale. Well, here's the thing. You can't all right for one. You can't be that much lower class because you can't have what is it Like? You can't be on state assistance. You can't be on certain Medicaid. Is it Medicaid? You can't. You can't be like a homeless person. No, you can't do that. Sorry, if you're like you're not going to get yourself out like that much, like we are already financially stable, this is just bumping it up. Okay, that's the level we're at. As for me being for rent, fine, but you know what? I'm also for rent at work and as soon as I'm done, I leave. Okay, um.
Speaker 3:I love that so much and babies aren't for sale, well then your adoption argument is invalid too. Um, it's not like we're selling the babies. We're not doing that and you're just babysitting and you know what Daycare is expensive and in that case they're selling babies too. You know like you can't take this like that, because that's not what it is. Okay If literally, I'm okay, so with surrogacy the way it is in the, the United States, with all the laws and rules with it, that is not what it is. I'm sure there are some places where, literally, they are doing that, but it's not here. We're not a black market baby selling society here. This is. I think I did a video on this about handsmaid's tale. That is not what this is.
Speaker 1:That is not what this is.
Speaker 3:That is not what's happening.
Speaker 1:You have to be financially stable and most agencies not all, but most agencies require that you supply proof of income and making sure that you're financially stable, and that's huge right. You can't. We don't want anybody being coerced into this, thinking they have to sign up for surrogacy because they're financially not going to make ends meet. We need to know your ends are met, that this is going to be something that elevates you, which is great and that's okay, but not that this is. I need this for myself to be able to put food on the table. No way, jose. So yeah, perfect.
Speaker 2:No, and that's why there's this like a psychological evaluation too, because, yes, compensation can be a motivator, but it cannot be like coming from a place of desperation that I need money. I need this money, so I'm willing to do this, even though I don't feel good about it or it's going to harm me.
Speaker 3:And you don't get it immediately anyway, like it could take forever. If you're that desperate, it's going to. Oh.
Speaker 2:I mean you in the last hours of work and time and all that. So that's why you got to be financially stable. I have another one for you. These are my favorite, get this one a lot there are kids right now that need adoption.
Speaker 3:This is inhumane and not godly at all. I mean, I agree that there are lots of kids who need adoption, but this is inhumane and not godly at all. I mean, I agree that there are lots of kids who need adoption, but that process is totally different. It's also very expensive and some people don't have that option. Brittany's parents could not adopt. They tried that route. They could not. They couldn't do it. So and then you know, there's the aspect of, like my IPs, they couldn't. Well, both of them. They can't carry their own babies. They just can't. They want their own kids. Is there anything wrong with that? Tons of people have their own kids. It's okay to want to have your own flesh and blood DNA kids, that's all right. And some people other situation where they adopt an embryo still adoption, but someone still has to make that embryo a baby. So some people are adopting embryos right now.
Speaker 1:I'm trying to go through this list to figure out which one I want to do now.
Speaker 2:I was trying to look through these.
Speaker 3:We kind of talked about this already. Dna related or not, I still bonded with the baby. No, I still bonded with and nurtured the baby for nine months. Oh yeah, we did talk about this. I mean, they're not related by DNA. You're just babysitting and it is okay to love on the baby while you're carrying it, because that means you're more likely to take care of it and not be smoking or drinking or skydiving again. You want to come and sit by me?
Speaker 1:She totally could. Leia, Are you going to stand there being like a creeper?
Speaker 3:No, just shut the door though.
Speaker 1:Yes, I'm going to do this one next. Hi, sweet girl.
Speaker 3:This is easy, put it away.
Speaker 1:Okay here's another one. Put it away. Okay, here's another one.
Speaker 3:Why do you have to have a kid to be a surrogate? What if you're oh, is that supposed to be personal? What if you're a person? What if you're a person who doesn't want kids but wants to bless others with it? Okay, bless others with a chance to bless others with it. Okay, bless others with the chance.
Speaker 3:Obviously there are surrogates, because some people can't have kids. And what if you're one of those people? But really, like, you have to be able to prove that you can do something? And like, if you can't have kids, if you're one of those people that is unlucky enough to not be able to have kids, you're not going to know that until you have a kid or try to. I don't know why people would. I mean, okay, I get wanting to be a blessing to someone, but if you can't prove that you're able to carry a baby or you know, do the actions, then you shouldn't be able to do it. And you know, some people so like I, have easy pregnancies. There are some people who think, oh yeah, I see you having an easy pregnancy, hopefully I can they get pregnant. They don't have an easy pregnancy, you know. They get all the water weight in their ankles. They like have to. You know, do bedrest and stuff. You're not going to know that unless you've done it. Yeah, so that would be a whole nother area of risk, I would think.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's so funny that I think that people's minds don't go like how do you think people find out that they need a surrogate?
Speaker 3:By trying to have a baby and not being successful. Or having a baby and having a really risky pregnancy that leads to complications or losing your you know, needing an emergency hysterectomy, or you know something, something happened that is wrong to make you not be able to do this.
Speaker 2:I mean that didn't happen until they had a baby.
Speaker 3:Anybody, yeah, and you're not going to know that unless you've tried it, unfortunately so why do you want to roll the dice on something like that?
Speaker 2:Why would anybody?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I don't. Yeah, I'm not. No, it's like trying to fly a plane without having any sort of instruction.
Speaker 2:You're going to just jump in there and do it. Good luck. I want to take people places. I want to be a blessing and take people places. Why can't I fly this plane Right?
Speaker 3:I've seen it on TV. Well, you know what? I haven't seen an accurate birth on TV, ever so, and there's so many things that we want to make sure that we're protecting these women Right.
Speaker 1:So, and making sure it's safe. I think there are so many hoops that a surrogate has to go through because we want to make sure for certain that she is going to be qualified and that her family is not going to be jeopardized by putting her in harm's way. So those records are going to be collected and reviewed by several professionals to make sure it's safe. They're going to have her do a psychological screening and a background. Those are necessary steps in making sure that it's safe, and that's just part of this. We want to make sure it makes sense. These parents put so much on the line to get to this place and it's necessary to make sure the surrogate is qualified and that it's safe for her to do it. I think that's the biggest takeaway from all of that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's a risky thing to have babies, and if you don't have proof that you can do it I mean at least successfully one time it doesn't even make sense to try.
Speaker 2:So for the compensation that we typically um when. You know, if you, when you see our ads I don't know, do you see a lot of our ads Probably get them a lot. Um the compensation that we advertise is a range from 45,000 to maybe 75,000 on average for surrogates, depending on experience, and people comment from time to time like this comment, um or. Or like that's like $2 an hour or something, um, that's how, how do you respond to that People that think that that's just not enough money.
Speaker 3:I haven't had very many people ask me how much I'm getting paid. I haven't had anyone do that. They've asked me if I felt like it was enough. And here's the thing If we like what is the okay here in our state are like minimum wages, like $15 an hour or something. If you actually expected a parent to pay that much, no one could afford surrogacy. And then it would be a different kind of moral thing Like oh, you're charging, like again, can't have it both ways. What are we like?
Speaker 3:No, no, you can't expect anyone to be able to do that too, like yeah, I don't even know what I would say, besides the fact that To be paid an hourly wage while you're sleeping.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, sometimes we're sleeping.
Speaker 3:Sometimes we're on the shower 24-7 for 40 weeks. How much would that be Like, say I give them a discount with $12 an hour? That's insane.
Speaker 1:There's perspective. It's just sharing that perspective.
Speaker 3:Would more people be?
Speaker 1:willing to do it, probably, but I don't know if there'll be parents that could afford to do it. That's just it. The reality is, it's not all rich and famous people. These are real moms and dads, teachers, you know that are working class, just wanting to have a family. So it's going to cut out those people and that's sad.
Speaker 3:Yeah, heartbreaking in its own story. Like I can't raise $2 million so I can have a baby. Like that's insane to think about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Yep, well, I think that's all. Thank you, lael. Thank you, lael, for being a part of this with us. Trusting Surgesia is to be your agency for journey number two. Thank you for allowing us to be a part of this journey with you. It's been an honor and I now can say I have a friendship out of this. You are an amazing human being and I'm just grateful that we have the opportunity to be able to be a part of your journey in your life. So thank you for hanging out with us.
Speaker 2:And good to know you at all. I'm so glad there's people like you in the world. I think you're so cool.
Speaker 3:It's so. Yeah, it's been so much fun to find out like just this whole thing has been crazy and wild and rewarding in so many different ways that I couldn't even begin to. Yeah, it's just been so good.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you and good luck with your upcoming lining check and next transfer. It's going to be the one.
Speaker 3:It is, it's going to. It's going to happen. It's yeah, we're going back to San Francisco. It's going to be good, going to be good.