Surrogacy Is a Podcast
Surrogacy Is a Podcast
Gays With Kids: The Joys and Challenges of LGBTQ+ Parenthood with Brian Rosenberg
What does it mean to truly navigate the complex, emotional journey of parenthood? In honor of Pride Month we talk with Gays With Kids Founder, Brian Rosenberg about family building within the LGBTQ+ community and everything his program offers.
Brian shares his experiences as a gay dad of three—one adopted and two via surrogacy discussing the joys and challenges of LGBTQ+ parenthood, offering knowledge into surrogacy and adoption.
He also shares GWK Academy's resources and personal coaching for future dads, something that offers much needed community and support in family-building journeys.
To learn more about Gays With Kids and all GWK Academy check out https://gayswithkids.com/
So you know what I got to do go down memory lane this morning when I was Tori's graduating high school next week and we had it's called clap out for her elementary school that she went to. She went today this morning at 745 and they had all the seniors up there and we had them hold the picture of their kindergarten year all together and it was the most bizarre. The principal was their kindergarten teacher and she's crying. I'm like everybody all the parents are all emotional. I'm like this is insane. Why are we here? How did this happen? And then the reality hits me that I have Trinity starting kindergarten this year and I'm like, oh gosh, we're doing all this over again. Whose idea was this?
Speaker 2:Pretty sure it was your idea, Casey.
Speaker 1:I think it was. I think I'm a little bit crazy, because realizing that I still also have a two-year-old that needs to go into kindergarten in three years means we're starting all over again for all of it, for hot minutes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're insane.
Speaker 1:Uh-huh, maybe just a little bit. Maybe just a little bit in the best way possible it was fun.
Speaker 2:I think I love it for you. I'm glad it's not me, um, for the, the type of work that we do and how I and I do like I see babies and I love them, but I'm like, oh my god no, get it. Get it away from me they trick me biologically and make me think that I want one, but I don't want one no, no, we get.
Speaker 1:We get to see babies all day long. It's just that we get to give them back, which is nice too, and I'm in that phase right now where the idea of going backwards again is just.
Speaker 2:I am really eager to be a grandma Like that's where I am. I think I'm going to really shine, Cause I love to hold in babies and I love when, when they love you back and, um, when you're their parent then you can give them back.
Speaker 1:They don't always love you after getting them a lot of ice cream.
Speaker 2:You could just say yes and be nice and have fun and you don't have to do any of the discipline or any of that. So yeah, I know I'm, uh, I don't envy you, no.
Speaker 1:Well, and now we get to live vicariously, through all of these amazing intended parents that we're helping every single day, be able to get to that finish line and hold these sweet babies. And I'm so excited that we get to talk to Brian today because I think he's spearheading this idea that parenthood looks different for everybody, being a same-sex father himself going through this process of trying to start their family and being able to really bring awareness to how do you navigate this process of surrogacy. So I'm really excited to hear his perspective.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think gays with kids is really cool because they don't only focus on surrogacy as a path to family building. There's also fostering and adopting and you know gay parents have especially gay men, you know have that challenge of family building that they they are going to need to go a non-traditional route and they know that. And I think it's really great that he's using all the things that he's learned in his own path and sharing so many stories. I love following gays with kids and seeing all the stories of all the different types of families, that in all the different ways that they're built and the way that they come together and, um, it's special, it's, it's pretty cool. So I'm excited to him for him to be able to share those resources with our listeners and teach them about how to become a parent when you are a gay individual and it's just going to look a little bit different, but still beautiful, it's so cool and I think the resources created and everything that he has is going to help these parents navigate this process a little bit better.
Speaker 1:So really excited to bring him on and pick his brain and have him share everything that he and they have created to make this happen.
Speaker 2:There's no such thing as too many resources, too many people helping Like absolutely all hands on deck. Let's help people build their families. Hi, brian, hello, it's so good to see you again. It's been a while. I feel like we've been trying to arrange this for a while and we've had like hits and misses in scheduling, so it's really great to see you.
Speaker 3:Thank you Likewise, likewise, likewise.
Speaker 1:We found the time. Well, happy birthday to your son, because you said that's his birthday today.
Speaker 3:It is. He is 15 years old. I can't believe it. It's crazy.
Speaker 2:Time goes so fast. So welcome to Surrogacy is a Podcast. I think what we really want to focus on this episode is just learning more about your program and the resources that you offer and really just kind of shed some light on the challenges that gay, bi and trans men face in building their families. It's a little bit more of a unique process and there's some challenges to it, and I know you have kind of committed yourself to making it accessible for more people and making it a little bit less scary and overwhelming, so we want to learn all about that.
Speaker 3:Thank you. I am excited to be here and to be able to share all that with you. Guys Appreciate you inviting me.
Speaker 1:Do you want to start by giving us a brief little intro of who you are, how you got started?
Speaker 3:Sure, my name is Brian Rosenberg, I'm the founder of Gaze With Kids and, I like to say, the head coach for GWK Academy. We launched 10 years ago. Actually, it was 10 years ago in March, march of 2014. I remember the date because it was March 21st. It was the day after my birthday. I had intended to launch on my birthday and you know the internet. It just didn't agree with me and the website didn't come live, for whatever reason, until March 21st 2014. But basically came up with the concept after becoming a dad myself.
Speaker 3:My husband and I have three children born through adoption and surrogacy Levi, our firstborn. We found out about him when he was three days old. We brought him home two days later and today he's 15 years old and he's as big as me. And Levi's twin sisters, Ella and Sadie, came to us through surrogacy. I like to share that I'm the bio dad, and the reason I share that is because I'm also HIV positive. I have been for a very long time longer since before I met my husband and we've been together. Well, next month will be 31 years, and so his little guy didn't swim. So I was the biological parent and I share that. So anyone that's ever watching HIV positive, knows that they too can become a dad, either biologically or through adoption. It's not a hindrance.
Speaker 3:And shortly after I became a dad, like at one point, we had three kids under the age of two and a little chihuahua. And you know my husband and had three kids under the age of two and a little two hour. And you know, my husband and I are both white, levi is black, the girls are white and wherever we went people would stop us, and after a while I realized it was like we were the circus sideshow, right? Everyone wants to know about our families and how their career and how it came to be who that were we.
Speaker 3:And after a while I got kind of tired of having to share my story every time I went out, and so I was like it would be great to connect with other dads, other gay dads, and at the same time I could tell you which I know is a question for later on it was very challenging for us to become parents and to create our family. There were scant resources available for us back then, and so I also want to share my story, but it wasn't until the kids were all out of diapers and eating solid foods and Levi was at whatever daycare or pre-K thing he went to, that I finally even had a chance to sit down and take a breath and say, okay, what's out there? And I was surprised to find nothing. And so I launched Gays with Kids and my goal was to help others become dads and then help those who are dads navigate the gay and gay parenthood.
Speaker 1:That's so beautiful and I know it's like there's not enough resources out there, where every day, sunshine and I, in what we're doing, are trying to create resources that we know are necessary for these intended parents. I would love if you could share, I guess, a little bit more about you had mentioned, when you decided you were going to start and grow your family, what were some of the challenges that you guys were faced with in that process.
Speaker 3:Gosh, well, I can tell you some of the challenges are still around today. So back then we didn't even know what our options were. Right Like there's no playbook that says, okay, if you're a gay man living in North America, you basically can become a dad through three ways either biologically, through surrogacy and IVF, you can adopt a newborn through a domestic US adoption, or you can adopt out of the foster care system. So there was nothing available. We did attend. I did find an adoption conference and I remember the reason that I thought was interesting. Well, so at the time I was like in my early forties and my husband's five years older than me and there was a session, say, titled so you think you're too old to parent. And so I'm like, okay, they know about me and my husband, we're going to go there and we went to this conference just for this one session. And it turns out the room was packed and I can tell you, besides me, my husband was by far the youngest person in the room at the time. And so like, okay, I guess we're really not too old to become parents.
Speaker 3:And we started as an adoption journey. But and we found exhibiting there, what a great adoption agency that we ended up working with. But you know the way it was back. So I'm going back 16, 17 years ago. These video calls didn't exist.
Speaker 3:Back then Everything took place, as my kids would say, irl, right in real life, and we would go to a meeting, whether it was an adoption agency or, later on, a surrogacy agency or an IVF doctor, and the meetings would last I don't know 45 minutes to two hours, depending on who it was with. We would try not to take notes because they wanted to be present and really participate in the conversation and be able to ask questions. But then we would leave like 45 minutes later and we would realize we had all these questions that we're sure were discussed during the conversation, but we could not remember any answers and we couldn't just keep calling them back again and again and again. So I honestly don't think we made a single decision during our adoption journey, our surrogacy and IVF journey, feeling truly confident that we knew what we were doing and we were making the right decision based on having all the information we needed to have. And so that really is what led me to.
Speaker 2:That was a big part of what led me to want to use our story to help others is I was like no, you just jump in the river and then the current just takes you and you're, like I, just trying to stay afloat.
Speaker 1:And it's really cold.
Speaker 3:Allergy sometimes. Oh my God, that's perfect, it's exactly what it was like.
Speaker 2:But we didn't have life jackets either, so we were doing the dog pound all the time, yeah, and you're getting hit in the face with branches and you're like ah, I know there's a lot of challenges with adoption. I've heard for gay men and I don't know if that's regional or if it depends on if you're going through like a religious agency, or I know that there are some more hurdles for gay men than there are for married heterosexual couples or even single single moms adopting. I think I'd love to if you could share if those challenges are maybe overblown or if maybe because maybe there's some gay men that don't even try to go the adoption route because they just think it's walled off to them and maybe you could shed some light on.
Speaker 3:Sure, absolutely. That's a great question and I would say that goes across, honestly, every path to parenthood. So one thing that I've found is it's really, really important that we work with organizations. So I consider a surrogacy agency, an IVF clinic, an adoption agency, a foster I categorize them all under family building partners. They help others create families. So it's so important.
Speaker 3:What I found is that we need to work with family building partners, building powers that are not only experts within their field but truly specifically have passionate about LGBTQ plus family building. You know, and others would say, well, they've got to at least be LGBTQ plus competent. But I'm going to take it a step further. I don't want someone who's just competent because they got one employee who's lesbian or gay or whatever. I want to work with an organization that shares my passion for LGBTQ plus family building.
Speaker 3:How do you know if an organization you're about to work with or you're talking to is passionate about LGBTQ plus family building? Well, I like to quote my mentor in the adoption space, and when she says because they'll be shouting it from the rooftops. So what does that mean? That means when you go to their website, they'll either have a page that says LGBTQ+ or gay family building or lesbian family building, or they'll just have, you know, pictures of families on their website or on social media that are as diverse as everybody is in this wonderful country we live in and so like, if you don't see our families, or families that will look like yours represented, run, don't walk, run away from them.
Speaker 3:I can't tell you, especially within adoption space. What's really sad is that, yes, today, if it's a religious-based organization, they can just be very blatantly homophobic and say, uh-uh, we don't want to work with you, we don't believe that you should be parents, but if they're not, then they can't do that. However, that doesn't mean every organization that is not a religious based one is LGBTQ plus, passionate or even competent, and I can't tell you how many people I've spoken to who were trying to adopt or even foster, get involved in the foster care space, and they were just left. You know, two, three years have gone by and nothing, and it turned out they didn't know that they had to do their research. They just went to the agency that was closest to the house and, sure enough, when I checked them out, these were not lgbtq plus friendly organizations. Forget about passionate, like they didn't mention us. Everything was very heteronormative the language on their sites, on social media, etc. Clearly they couldn't say no to people, because you can't say no to anyone for sexual orientation purposes.
Speaker 2:You can back burner them and you can just delay somebody's time. That's so cruel. That's more cruel, I think, in some ways, than even just blatantly saying I'm homophobic and I'm not going to help you, like that's a kindness, because at least you're not wasting their time.
Speaker 1:But to pretend that you are and then to stall somebody on their journey to become parents is so evil, especially when you know this process is such a lengthy one and that there are so many milestones that you have to hit to even get to that finish line and to know that you could be stalled in the very, very beginning of that, it's sad. Well, I'm glad there's organizations like yourself out there offering this support to these intended parents and giving them a kind of an awareness to say these are the things you're looking for. These are the things you should be asking. What does your organization do and kind of how does that process work? If somebody is interested in starting this process, navigating whether it's going to be surrogacy, adoption, what does that look like when they come to you? What are those resources you have for them?
Speaker 3:when they come to you, what are those resources you have for them? So we have it's taken. We started GWK Academy about three years ago. What was our first version of the iteration of, I should say, and my thoughts were I had this weird realization and, honestly, someone like I was on Facebook and someone said, hey, can we do a Facebook chat or a video call? I'm like okay, I said just so. You said, hey, can we do a Facebook chat or video call? I'm like okay, I said just so you know, like I'm married, I'm taken. But no, no, it's not about that. I just want to talk to you. I'm like okay, we get in the call. And he says I just wanted to tell you to your face thank you. He said you don't know how much you've inspired me to become a dad and I got off of them.
Speaker 3:I said thank you so much. I appreciate that. And I said to what are you doing? What are you gonna do now? And he stopped for a minute. He literally scratched his head and said I don't know. I guess I have to wing it from here and I'm like, oh my gosh, I've inspired people and I don't mean to like downplay the importance of that. I know I've helped change hearts and minds, but I haven't actually helped someone become a dad.
Speaker 3:So that became the launch of GWK Academy, in which we have a ton of resources available. So the first thing we have is I want you to get educated. I don't want anyone to feel like I did, like that they're making any decisions without being fully confident that they don't really understand it. So the first we do, if you don't even know, it's best, best for you. We have two courses. We have a surrogacy and IVF course, which is like 13, 14, 15 lessons, mostly videos. We try to do quick videos because we know people's attention seems to, you know, go quickly and then, but we take you through everything you need to know and then we do the same thing for adoption and foster job, so that by the time you've gone through these courses, you understand how long it's going to take, how much it's going to cost. And we've all heard the adage it takes a village to raise a child. Well, the truth of the matter is for gay and queer men, it also takes a village to create a child, to create a family. So I want to make sure people understand the different types of organizations and people they're going to work with, they're going to have to create for their village as well, and then, once they understand all that, they can determine sort of which path is best for them. Then they move forward.
Speaker 3:And what do we do? We have I offer coaching calls, free coaching calls, I'd be honest with you. But there's nothing I like more than just getting on a video call and talking to an intended dad or dad's couple and just talking to them about their options and making sure they're well-informed. Like I just sit and smile. I love this. I can't imagine a better way to spend the day. So I do coaching calls and we also match people with mentors.
Speaker 3:So these are, I told you, my kids are now 15 and 13 and a half, so my journey was a long time ago and I can't remember what I ate for dinner yesterday, so I'm not to talk like about recent experiences. So instead, we match people with guys who've done the same journey, these people undertaking more recently, typically within two or three years, and we try like, if it's a single guy going through adoption, we'll match them with a single guy going through adoption. If it's a couple going through surrogacy, we'll match them with a couple going through surrogacy. We try to even match them if they've got similar family building partners, and so we have the courses, coaching, mentors and, last but not least, we do have some, a small network of vetted family building partners that you got we've all talked about in the past as well uh, that we can connect people with, and this is what I always say look at the people in my small little network.
Speaker 3:They're not the only ones available for you to work with. There are plenty of others out there that are wonderful and awesome, like Sargassi is, but you know, I only have so many in my network. However, that being said, if I were to start a journey, this is where I would start and talk to these people, and if they have other you know names of organizations, I say share with me. If I know of them. I'll let you know. Sometimes I do, often I don't, because, as you guys know, there's too many.
Speaker 3:So many and sometimes they'll tell me the name of an organization that I do a little research on and it's not one I would go forward with, and I will let them know that and I will explain why I wouldn't go forward with them, and so, yeah, that's all the things that we offer GWK Academy.
Speaker 2:Oh gee, that's all.
Speaker 1:That's all.
Speaker 1:I was going to say, the resource of connecting these intended parents to other dads who are going through a similar journey is huge. And I've recently realized that because we had an intended parent who went on their journey and they're on, they're happy, they're excited, and she had shared. I've been having such a great experience. If you ever have any intended parents who want to talk to me, let me know. Well, sure enough, I talked with an intended mom, a single mom, who was like, how do I navigate this by myself, and is this even something that I can do? And I said, yes, it is, and let me put you in contact with this other amazing woman. And they did, they connected and the conversation, having somebody who's going through it currently to share that perspective is huge, it's, it's priceless.
Speaker 2:That community is so, cause it's so. Going through infertility or struggling to build your family is a really isolating experience. It can be and can feel really alone in it and having connected with somebody that's even just a little bit further along on the path than you are is just like probably gives you so much peace of mind. I know it did for me when I was becoming a surrogate. I wanted to talk to other surrogates who were like knew what was coming around the next corner, cause there's always so many different hurdles that you're going over.
Speaker 2:Um, I had kind of an interesting when I think about my family building experience. I was a teen mom and I went to, I went through that decision when I was 16. Am I going to keep this baby? Am I going to give her up for adoption? Those were the only options I considered and, um, I went to an adoption agency and I like read through profiles and stuff of families and I was like, yeah, no, I don't think I can. I don't think I can do that.
Speaker 2:I think it's amazing that there are people that give their children up for adoption and that are can do that.
Speaker 2:I think it's amazing that there are people that give their children up for adoption and that are.
Speaker 2:And you know, because that's a gift too If you don't have the ability to parent that child and give them the life that you know they deserve, and you know there are others out there that are ready and willing to do it, I think giving a child up for adoption is such a strong and beautiful gift. But I wasn't ready to do that and then I only had one child and then I became, you know, a teen mom and that was rough. And then I became a surrogate and then years later I stumbled into a foster to adopt situation. So I was fostering. My youngest now got her when she was four and it took about 18 months to go through the foster process before we were able to finalize adoption. And then I did two more surrogacy journeys. So I feel like I've kind of dabbled in all these different things from a different angle than how you've approached them, but we've kind of touched all the same avenues of of how to just get, get children into the loving arms of people who want to love them.
Speaker 3:And it's so special. You know what's so scary, Sunshine is there are 400,000 children in the foster care system. Are those 400,000 kids? You know? The goal of the foster care system is that the child or children get reunited with some birth feeling right. It doesn't have to be the parent, it could be grandparent, aunt, uncle, cousin, it could even be like the science teacher from elementary school, et cetera, but of that it's over 25%. So more than 100,000, more than 125,000 of those children are what's called freed up for adoption, meaning they're just waiting for their forever families. How anyone could not be willing to do whatever it takes to make sure these children, these 125,000 US kids, don't have a loving family to go home to is crazy to me. And one of my goals with GWK Academy is I hope we do a lot about talking about foster kids, especially for the LGBTQ plus kids, because I think in general, we've all heard awful stories about how foster care kids are treated.
Speaker 2:Well, the LGBTQ plus kids are treated like, you know, really, really bad, and so I'm hoping that I can have some kind of impact or influence in just increasing the number of gay families that become I remember one of the classes I was taking when I was going through foster care, because you know you have to do all these hours of courses and while you're going through like trauma, informed courses and all these things and and I learned and I was really surprised, there's a lot of teenagers LGBTQ plus teenagers that end up in foster care because their own parents reject them. And there are people that are signing up for foster care that are like I remember somebody was saying well, what if I'm not comfortable bringing an LGBTQ, you know, or gay whatever, bringing an LGBTQ, you know or gay whatever they didn't even say it that nicely, you know kid into my home and I remember the teacher of the course was like then I think you're in the wrong place and I don't think you're qualified to be a foster parent?
Speaker 3:Yeah, because who's to say, who they bring home doesn't come out to them at some point in the future and they're telling them they can't be loved in Paris.
Speaker 1:And I know even to adopt and to foster is not an easy. I think there's so much misconceptions in that. Okay Well, why aren't you just adopting and why are you choosing to use and go the surrogacy route? But adoption is not an easy process either. There are so many hoops that you have to jump through what would be. I guess you see probably all of the different reasons why somebody might choose adoption over foster, but do you have any insight to kind of how you help these fathers figure out what is the best route for them and what does that timeframe look for them?
Speaker 3:Sure, so, coincidentally, right now, if you start a stargazing IVF journey or start an adoption journey and by that I mean like you've picked your family, building partners and you're ready to move forward, et cetera it would take about two years either way. So the timeframe is around the same right now. I think that the biggest difference is for people who want to feel, who want to have a biological connection to their kids, and then they're going to go surrogacy route and not only do they get a biological connection, but they also get to help choose the other half of the genes. And so I think that for people for whom that's important, surrogacy and IVF is going to be the way to go. For people for whom that is not important, then adoption is likely the way they'll go.
Speaker 3:I've also seen, you know, people who have adoption in their lives. They were adopted, their parents were adopted, they have a sibling, they're much more comfortable conceptually with it and find that they're often the ones who are most interested in adoption first. And then, honestly because I really do make sure people are fully educated whether or not this plays out I can't tell you, but I can tell how many people I've talked to say, well, the first child. We want to have that biological education. We want to go with surrogacy, but when we're ready to come back for more we'll look at adoption and foster adopt Again. Whether or not they do, I have no idea, I hope they do. I love the fact that they're even thinking about it and saying it because maybe they'll help tell other people about that as an option as well. Want to play a role in your own child or babies. You know genetics and how much you want to also figure out who's going to be the other half of that versus how much does that not matter to you?
Speaker 3:yeah and then we do need to talk about price with these. Um, both are expensive. Most people do not have money around to pay for either right in the bank. But surrogacy and IVF journey, as you guys know, I tell people to plan to spend somewhere between $140,000 to $220,000, depending, and for an adoption journey, I tell them to plan to spend somewhere between $40,000 and $50,000. So either is expensive, but one can be seen as insurmountable versus the other.
Speaker 1:That was going to be my next question, so you answered that.
Speaker 3:And.
Speaker 1:I think that plays probably a huge component in them figuring out what makes the most sense. But foster to adopt is free.
Speaker 3:Fostering is absolutely free. I think the issue with fostering is a couple of things you know. Most people say they don't need a baby, but they want a toddler or a young one. And when you typically I'm not saying you can't become a dad to even a newborn through foster adopt, that's very unlikely um, you're much more likely to adopt. The kids between 7 to 11 is number one. And then you know every agency. What I found is different.
Speaker 3:Some agencies will say to you I understand, intended parent that you want to become a full-time, permanent dad.
Speaker 3:However, today I've got these kids who need a roof over their heads and someplace safe to go to.
Speaker 3:So if you want to work with our agency, you have to take these kids now and play that out with them, because you know you might have them for three months, you might have them for a year, et cetera. Some agencies will say that and some people just they can't handle that. Others will say, okay, you only want to work, you only want to meet with children who are freed up for adoption. Fine, we'll do that, but now it's going to be longer until you're matched with someone, because we have to match you with someone who's been freed up for adoption, and the more, of course, the more you know. If you're not willing to take a child whose mom smoked or maybe drank a little, or who did some drugs like, then your wait time is going to be longer and longer. But yes, it is true that when you go through the foster care system, I mean the only thing you might have to front up you know, upfront expense wise are legal fees. But typically even then the state will reimburse you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, and I know there there's so many hurdles that you have to consider, and that child, what they've gone through and the trauma and that you know they could be. You're addressing and trying to be that safe place that they're landing when, when they are in your home. You know that, just so many things. And for that blanket statement well, there's so many kids that need a good home to be adopted. Why are we even considering surrogacy? Why are we even considering it? To me it's a naive comment, right? You're not really thinking about the full picture or have the full landscape at all.
Speaker 3:Correct. I mean honestly, I really think everyone should be fully educated on what all your options are and then make the decision that's best for you.
Speaker 3:Like GEDK, we are no judgment zone. Like I, want to make sure you're educated, you understand all your options and then you do what's best for you. Not everyone should consider adoption from the foster care system. You're right, casey. The thing that every child in the foster care system has in common is they've experienced some kind of neglect or abuse or trauma, and it could be from just, you know, some basic neglect to something really bad, and not everyone is kind of.
Speaker 3:We met, so we do an annual spring break vacation for families, and this one family that lived in Orlando came and met us for a dinner. They had a child who was like 14 to 15, can't talk, can't eat himself, has machines all over, and this is the child they intended to adopt from the foster care system. Unbelievable, truly angels on earth and I'm not a religious person, but like how many people are really capable of doing that? I'm not. So you have to really tell yourself what are you able to parent? And there's no, it doesn't mean one is better than the other, one's right or wrong. Everyone should have the information they need to make the decision that's best for them. And then, once you do that, I'm here to support you yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's really easy to tell other people what they should be doing, but when you turn that around and how come you're not doing that? I always ask me how many children have you adopted from the foster care system? Oh, none, I could never. Well, then why are you telling somebody else that they should? Who do you think you are? Yeah?
Speaker 3:no, it's crazy. I, I, really I avoid that conversation like the plague because it's no one's business, but the only person who gets to make that decision is the individual going down their journey to paradise with a couple.
Speaker 1:What does this process look like? If an intended parent is deciding I'm going to navigate through this, what is the cost associated kind of taking your course if they come and find you, what does that look like for them in navigating this?
Speaker 3:My cost is next to nothing and that's done by design. First of all, I told you, fortunately I'm in a place where I don't need this to make a living, or I would have shut my doors a long time ago. I am. I do charge money because I really believe that we're giving amazing value and I think if you don't charge, then there's a perception that the value is not there. But we have now three memberships. One is a monthly whopping $5.99 a month and you can stop at any time. But you know like we've been doing this for three years now.
Speaker 3:so there are people that I haven't talked to a year, year and a half, and now they're getting matched with their surrogate or now they're getting, they're ready to put their profiles out there and they're coming back with more questions and I love that right, like that's exciting to me, so like people want to stick around. So $5.99 a month, or it's a an annual fee of at least $39 $39 to $49, remember or it's a one-time and you're set for life $99. So I mean, when you consider how much any path costs, it's really just because I want it's also a way for me to weed out, like If you're not really interested and you don't have to be interested today like you can. I have people who are joining because they want to understand what their options are, but they know it's still several years out before they're going to get started. Well then, I wanted to make it affordable for them and reasonable for them. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Does that include the course for them to like everything? Wow?
Speaker 3:Everything.
Speaker 1:That's beautiful Everything.
Speaker 3:And what I did mention is we also hold webinars webinars for everyone, anyone can come for free and then we host webcasts, which are typically more drill down topics on very specific niche topics that are based on the various milestones that you have to hit, and those are only available for GWK Academy members. We're really looking, you know, we are doing more to build a community, not only with the mentors and people who are going through the journey, but people going through the journey with each other, because we found there's also great value that you guys have already mentioned.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think you also mentioned really early on and we kind of just moved past it but that you have been HIV positive for a good long while and you're living a healthy best life and you're a dad and you, I think probably when you got that diagnosis a long time ago, maybe you didn't imagine that this is what your future was going to be.
Speaker 2:Do you want to share a little bit about that and when people are are getting a diagnosis and they're thinking maybe this is I'm never going to be a parent like. What did you learn in your process? That you can give them some hope?
Speaker 3:Sure. So I know that I contracted HIV in 1989, 1988, excuse me and I found out I was HIV positive in 1990. Back then it really was a death sentence. The very first doctor I had literally said to me here's ACT, you're going to take this and you're going to call me when you get really sick. And I remember the nurse who worked for him was this jewish woman and she looked out of my last name and she said that I'm jewish rosenberg. So she assumed that she's like what is a nice jewish boy like you doing in a place like this? And so I can tell you. Then I came out and blah, blah, blah but blah.
Speaker 3:But in my 30s, so my 29th year, through my 30s or mid-30s, I probably went to 25 to 30 funerals, all of guys in their 20s and 30s. I went to one funeral. This guy hit 40. And we're all like, oh my God, he lived to 40. Can you imagine we all hoped, god he lived to 40. Can you imagine we all hoped that we would live to 40.
Speaker 3:So back in those days we weren't thinking about parenthood, right, like it wasn't even an option for us. It was when we were going to get sick and die. And so I did know a couple of people who became dads then, but like literally two or three people, and I was very enmeshed in the LGBT, in the gay let's say in the gay community. And first Boston, south End, and I worked at the Family Community Health Center, boston's big LGBT center, and I ran a program to help keep HIV positive men healthy and HIV negative men negative. And so it was just, you know, I was in the thick of it, I was in the heart of it. So I absolutely did not ever foresee an instance in which I would be like this.
Speaker 3:So that was my 20s, I should say in early 30s, and then life changed and, you know, different medications came out and I still had friends who died why I didn't and they did I, you know I'll have some guilt over that as well, sorry, I don't mean to get a little verklempt. Um and so things have changed and uh, so today I tell people you know, just take care of yourself, take your meds, and you can do whatever you want to do. And I'm living proof of it because I've been HIV positive. That I know of since, oh, I know since 1988. And so if I'm still around, there's no reason for you not to be around as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, In 1988, that was, I mean, yeah, there was no, what a miracle.
Speaker 1:That was 25 years ago.
Speaker 3:You're a miracle.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And you're a dad, I'm a dad yes, and you're a dad.
Speaker 3:I'm grateful because I feel like I had to do something. I had to have an impact on other lives to make mine worthwhile. Like that is something that I felt hanging over me. Like why am I here? Leo's not, danny's not, al's not? I can go down right. A survivor's guilt. I have to have done something. That is something that I've always said. Helped in my background is I have to do something to honor those lives and to make mind worthwhile.
Speaker 2:Wow, and you're doing it.
Speaker 1:You are doing it. You should be really proud of yourself, because I I think it's these testimonies like this that are going to make a difference for so many, for years to come. You know so you are making a difference and I hope you know that it's it's big and it's necessary.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I've been watching your Instagram and all the stories and all that you have been telling over the years with gays, with kids and just so many different beautiful families being built and you give them a platform to show and to showcase because it is so important, like you said, when you're choosing family building partners. I was thinking about this the other day for our website, because I don't think um, that on our website we don't have like um, and I go back and forth about this because I also I have a, I have a trans son and I have like. I don't. I always feel like there are some organizations that might, like virtue, signal their support for LGBT community and I don't ever want to give that impression. And one of the things that I really loved I don't know if you watched Schitt's Creek. Did you watch that?
Speaker 2:show it's so good, and one of the things that I love about that show and what the vision was behind it was that it's not like um, oh, they, they. They created a universe, created a world where homophobia doesn't exist. So people don't even respond to the fact that David is bi or you know, like they don't. Even nobody has a problem with it. Nobody's like I love you anyways, I love you in spite of you know, it's very much just like. These are people. These are people. We're all people. We're all different and I like what we try to do in our representation is just show lots of different types of families and different types of people on my website and have it appear as like a virtue signaling thing, because we really do want to help all types of people and I want everybody to feel included. But now I'm like well, brian says that we need to shout it from the rooftops and I not doing that.
Speaker 1:But we are, though, because we have a lot of videos that we've told stories of, of um same sex daddies who are dads, and I mean, I think that we are without having that being plastered everywhere. I don't know.
Speaker 3:So here's the thing. Number one reason number one is because our journey is a little bit different than what is involved in a typical surrogacy journey or in an IUI or whatever. So I think to have that, just as what many organizations have, it it's meant to be educational. Hey, gay men, we get you too, let's explain your journey. Or hey, same-sex women, let's explain your journey, because it is different than the rest of the context. So that's number one. And then number two is I just do want to see like photos, but if you're and I'm look, come on, guys, I know you also, we follow you, and you're not like I don't think anyone's going to say, oh my God, are they like open to all family building? I don't know. So, like you know, know, I'm not talking.
Speaker 2:I think most people know that just when they visit your site. I hope so. I'm gonna. I'm gonna look at it now, though, through fresh eyes, and be like is it clear? Does it show, is it? Yeah, I'm gonna just go through it.
Speaker 3:I'm gonna be combing through it later it has when I've looked at your site, so I am, if it's new, I I haven't gone, but yeah, that's really my two things is are the families represented across everything? And the page is really because what's different for us? And yeah, not everyone has to have a page that says LGBTQ plus, as long as the comp. But then is the rest of the content? Is it written heteronormatively or is it written for all populations? If the rest of your content is written for all populations, so, and this is what it means if you're a straight woman, this is what it means. If you're a straight man, this is what it means. If you're trans, this is what it means if, if that's all included, then you don't need a separate lgbtq plus page. I would be willing to suggest that very few organizations across any family building partner do that or make that sort of build, do that work to make all the content all inclusive. But if it is, then awesome, you certainly don't need a separate lgbtq plus page.
Speaker 2:that makes sense yes totally and I do think we do try to do that because I always try to be really mindful of pronouns and parents and not talk about moms and dads only because sometimes there's there's so many people that are single moms, single dads, lesbian moms, gay, you know. There's so many different families that we help and will help and want to help and all of them have that one thing in common, which is they really want to love a child and they want to raise a child and that's going to complete their life and give them fulfillment and and we want to help anybody who wants to do that to get there.
Speaker 3:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, I have, we have this. We call it a mean tweet segment.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 1:And it's really just. Sometimes people post things on social media. That is a little ignorant and they are not really thinking through their statements and we a little ignorant is generous yeah, a lot ignorant, um, and just not really thinking through.
Speaker 1:Like maybe there are more sites to this story and you have not all the information. Um, can we have you? I'm gonna chat this to you and drop this right now in the chat. Can you read it and then respond to it? Of course, okay, sending it to you right now. This right now in the chat. Can you read it and then respond to it? Of course, okay, sending it to you right now.
Speaker 2:I hope you're taking your blood pressure medication.
Speaker 3:Yeah, what absolute nonsense. Instead of creating designer babies and using women's bodies as some kind of rent a uterus, they should be adopting kids that already exist and need homes. They should be adopting kids that already exist and need homes. Shouldn't every one of us have all the understand, all the options available and then create families in the way in which it makes the most sense for us? And shouldn't? Shouldn't straight, if only straight every straight person had to go through a third, a quarter of what we LGBTQ plus folks have to go through in order to become parents? Then maybe these kids wouldn't even be in the foster care system in the first place.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, that's just absolutely ridiculous. We should all. We're just creating. It's all about creating loving families, safe and loving homes. If anyone wants to do that should be able to do that and should be able to do that, and they should be able to do it in the path that they choose. And everyone I wish everyone had to go through, like I said, an iota of what we have to do to prepare for becoming parents, because you don't have too many LGBTQ plus families that send our kids to the foster care system.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, that's such a good point and so true. And I think the gay parents that I know I'm like God. I wish my parents were gay. These kids are so loved. I was like man.
Speaker 1:I was like man, the, the asinine statements I will say we is is real and prominent, unfortunately, we just have to keep combating these.
Speaker 2:We just got to get them like a whack-a-mole, you know just.
Speaker 1:I just dropped the second one.
Speaker 3:And you know. So we put we. We started posting stuff on Facebook before I realized I could actually restrict For some reason it won't let me restrict who it's shown to, but I can restrict who's allowed to comment. So now you know you have to follow us and these are typical comments.
Speaker 3:So surrogacy is basically human trafficking. How extremely stupid and wrong. It's harmful to women and babies. Stop commodifying a sacred process. This is not a dig at those who desire children and can't produce them themselves. My heart goes out to those with that longing. Yeah, I'm sure.
Speaker 3:However, purchasing a woman for her fertility and use of her body, then tearing apart a child that is only known as biological, as mother's heartbeat for nine months their bodies are scientifically intertwined for life to satisfy another human who wants to shop a brand new baby, is really dark.
Speaker 3:Well, first I'd say, get educated, please, and don't get educated the way. Don't like do searches through your friends, like, really get educated a how a surrogacy and IVF journey works, at least here in the United States, where it's a true partnership between the surrogate, who gets as much opportunity and choice about who she's going to partner with as the intended parents, and realize that you know it's, she's actually not at all biologically connected and that's done by design and that's. These women have already given birth and they're done with their own family building, so they a know what it's like to carry a baby and b can imagine what it's like to give this joy for somebody else like it's. I hate this ignorant stuff. When people and they really do they go into such detail about what we're doing wrong and they have no idea, because what they're representing is not even close to facts. So that's what I really don't understand. And then she'll comment like this and I'll say you have all these other people.
Speaker 3:Oh my God, yes, this is awful, it's a sin. God didn't mean it this way. You have all these other people oh my God, yes, this is awful, it's the same. God didn't mean it this way, and they have no clue. I just don't understand that.
Speaker 2:At least get educated and, like you know, come back to us with something or approach it with curiosity. Hey, I wonder. I wonder if this is. You know, let me find out. No, I wonder if they're biologically connected. No, they're not.
Speaker 3:Next question, you know like I wonder if the woman really gets to choose this and she's doing it from a place in which she is just loving me, helping enough. Oh no, I'm not gonna look into that.
Speaker 1:No, not understanding that anybody who's working with an agency that's doing things ethically is going to pre screen that surrogate to make sure she's qualified. It's safe for her, not physically, not mentally only, but financially. Background all of it. You know there are so many hoops anybody has to go through.
Speaker 3:They decide they want to go through and be a surrogate you can't just decide you want to do it, not only the support of the intended dad or dad that she's working with, or intended couple, but she's got her own support right Either a husband, a mom, a sibling, a best friend, someone else who's there just and only for her. Like, get educated. That's what I just don't understand is.
Speaker 2:It's frustrating. Block and delete that's what we do Block, delete, repeat. Well, thank you so much for spending this time with us today. I'm so glad that we were able to finally connect and share, and thank you for all these amazing resources that you've dedicated your life to making a difference and having an impact for other people to have the same benefits and family building that you've been able to enjoy. I just think it's really neat when people make the decision to give back and not just I got mine and I'm on my way Like that's really cool that you want to give that to others and and keep making a difference, cause I know sometimes it feels like we're fighting an uphill battle, but you're making a big impact and and we're grateful for you.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much. I'm grateful that you guys brought me on here and you helped spread the word, and for the work that you guys do as well, and supporting and being passionate about LGBTQ plus family building, because there's not enough people out there and organizations out there, so right back at you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thank you. Happy birthday to your son and have a wonderful weekend.
Speaker 2:Your future pilot.
Speaker 1:Thank you, Bye Brian.