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Surrogacy Is a Podcast
Surrogacy Is a Podcast
Celebrating Surrogacy with Expectant Fathers Brian Patrick Flynn and Hollis Smith
Sunshine and Casey welcome two very special guests to the podcast, HGTV Dream Home Designer Brian Patrick Flynn, and his husband Hollis Smith. Together they discuss the excitement and longing these Dads feel before the arrival of their sweet daughter and the journey it took to welcome her to their family.
From playful discussions on dad jokes and baby fashion to celebrating the beloved children's show "Bluey," this episode is packed with warmth and humor. Plus, as we mark Pride Month- Brian, and Hollis open up about their surrogacy experience as a same-sex couple, shedding light on the beautiful diversity of modern families.
As we reflect on the future, we discuss how these Intended Fathers plan to document and share their surrogacy journey with their daughter, emphasizing the significance of capturing every precious moment. From the ethical considerations surrounding "designer babies" to the practicalities of hiring a night nurse, this heartfelt episode is filled with joy, challenges, and the unwavering dedication of those involved, making it a must-listen for anyone interested in surrogacy as parents and the beauty of unconventional family structures.
About Brian and Hollis’ surrogacy journey:
Brian and Hollis’s love story spans an impressive 18 years, the duo, who tied the knot in 2018, found themselves at a crossroads as they approached 40, juggling booming careers and contemplating the next step. The pandemic served as an unexpected catalyst, making them realize that the time to embrace parenthood was now.
They decided to pursue surrogacy and had a magical connection with their surrogate, Marissa (who we adore so much at Surrogacy Is because she is our graphic designer). Their journey was filled with love, laughter, and unexpected twists. (Hear more about their story at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSCEQwwOnXw)
Their daughter Clover was born on April 17, 2024, after the taping of this episode. Both baby girl and Marissa are happy and healthy. The Dads are beyond excited for the next chapter of their lives.
Hey babe, hey guys, I'm from California, no, you know, I didn't think that I had an accent but, you know, nobody thinks that they have an accent, right, like you think other people have an accent and you are the default normal. But I thought that I didn't have an accent until I was, um, I was doing tutoring for a South Korean company called Vocabulitis which is funny, um, and they wanted somebody to record their like audio things for this like online thing they were trying to do, and they had me record a couple of like sampled ones and they came back and they were like I'm so sorry, we can't use you for this, you have too strong of a Californian accent. I was like I do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I didn't even know that was a thing. What's a Californian accent? I don't know. I hear these young kids now having their accents in California, that I do hear that, but I hope. I hope that I don't come across as a California accent.
Speaker 2:What that? What that is that you're hearing, you're going to have to, like, send me it, find it and send me a video, because I will I want to see a California accent.
Speaker 1:I want to hear but for the record, you don't have a California accent. You wouldn't know.
Speaker 2:You're in California.
Speaker 1:Well, I guess that's true. Well then, the verdict is still out, I suppose. Let us know, listeners, do I have a California accent? Maybe I do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, do we? I think so. Tell us in the comments. Do we sound like we're from California? Am I from California? See, that's what California accent is. Oh, am I from California?
Speaker 2:See, that's what California accent is oh, my God, I don't know how this even came up. Anyways, I'm really really excited. Today's podcast episode is one of the coolest that we're going to have the opportunity to have, for a couple of reasons. One the thing I'm most excited about is our graphic designer.
Speaker 2:Marissa is amazing. She's so cool. She's the most down-to-earth, creative, just wonderful person, and she is about to give birth any day to her first surrogate baby, which is like she's the celebrity, she's the superstar. But she happens to be caring for a couple of dads who happen to be, you know, one of them happens to actually be a celebrity and Brian and Hollis are like the ideal intended parents, with how much they love and care about their surrogate and how special their relationship is. So I can't wait to have them on. I'm so grateful that they're willing to spend this time with us while they're just kind of counting down the moments until their baby is born, and I'm really excited that we're able to record this and, and I think by the time we air this, it's going to be pride month. This is going to be our uh a pride episode. So, for those of you who are listening, happy pride, pride. Uh, we have a really fun story and segment to share with you guys today so special I'm so excited.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you guys so much. We've been so looking forward to meeting you and and having you on our podcast.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for coming of course, thank you so we always start with an icebreaker and we both sunshine and I giggled when we saw this icebreaker, so I'm going to take it, even though I know probably Sunshine's like dang it. I wanted to ask have you stepped up your dad joke game? I mean, are we ready for dad jokes and do we have that solid and solidified?
Speaker 4:Well, sadly, I've always been criticized for being a dad joker kind of person at work, so I think I'm already kind of in the zone. But stepping it up, I'm sure I'm going to find those moments coming very quickly.
Speaker 3:No, as far as the dad jokes go, I've done everything I can to avoid the dad jokes because I've come from a family of a father who has been a dad joke expert. Before dad jokes were a thing. But on the flip side, the one thing we have been doing, which we didn't really anticipate from the beginning, is like the dad fash stuff. So like I recently, in the past like six months, discovered bluey and it's like the only children's show that I've ever watched, that I've, I'm watching before I have a child and I love. I went to school for television and film and I love everything about it so much that I had been buying Bluey merchandise. I have sweatshirts, t-shirt, several sweatshirts, he has a t-shirt and so I'm doing like the fashion equivalent of dad jokes, but like with dad shirts and I'm totally owning it, I'm into it jokes, but like with dad shirts, and I'm totally owning it, I'm into it.
Speaker 2:Everybody raves about bluey and I've never seen it because my, my youngest, is 10 and so it's just never. I missed the bluey boat but I feel so left out because everybody says it's so like inspirational and that it's like very real you have not out, you still have great opportunity, because I think it's generational appeal.
Speaker 4:Uh, cause, you know, we've literally been sitting here watching them, just as the two intended parents coming on, and it's we sit there and go look, oh my God, it's like I understand it. I get the approach, I get what they're trying to teach, even me it's been.
Speaker 3:it's kind of a little bit of a practice for us. So the dad jokes thing, to answer your question, absolutely not. I can't stand them because I was raised with them and I had to go through all the, all the courtesy laughs I did with my dad. But the reason we're so obsessed with Bluey is it kind of it pulls back the veil on what children's programming used to be. It dives right in and talks about screen time. It talks about autism. It talks about ADHD.
Speaker 3:There's an episode where there's a little bird on the tree that falls down and gets hurt and they bring it into the vet's office and it doesn't make it and Bluey, who's a little blue healer girl for the first time, understands that there's something called death and has to deal with it. So there are these nine minute micro episodes and they have these incredible lessons that are all psychology driven and have to do with like feelings and how to deal with emotions as a child. And it's not shallow, it's super deep, but it's done beautifully and I could talk about it for hours and like I hate that I missed the boat and I didn't get hired to work on it, cause that's like my dream job now. Yeah.
Speaker 4:I mean, they even have an episode where the parents are hung over, and yeah, it's, it's, it's amazing and they. You see how like the parents are like real life then exactly two children and they're hung over from you know, going to a friend's party and it's like, oh my gosh well, on that same note, um, this leads us into all the other questions.
Speaker 3:There's an episode about miscarriage, which is something you don't talk about as a child or a kid, or a person or a guy, and like they have the script and this is what's got me so excited about being a dad is like all the things that like weren't available to us when we were little are now becoming the norm, like talking about feelings or immediately stepping up and understanding adversity and being like super transparent and like nobody's supposed to be just one way. You're supposed to like be masculine and feminine. There's a, there's, there's everything, and, uh, I think, I think, I think doing this now, in our late forties, it's kind of the right time.
Speaker 2:Yeah. You guys are going to be so ready to raise such a healthy, like emotionally and mentally healthy, child.
Speaker 4:That's good Cause. I'm not.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I'm so bad, like I feel like as a parent. I that's like one of the things that keeps me up at night, that I wrestle with all the time is like how am I ruining my child, the things that I'm doing, that I know my parents did, and I hear the words coming out and I'm like I remember it, like I didn't like why am I even saying that? Why am I so mad that you, that you dumped out half your bottle of shampoo like who cares? But I came, I grew up, like you know, we didn't have a lot and so we couldn't be wasteful, and so if I was wasteful, it was a really big deal but then.
Speaker 2:I'm like yelling at my child, who dumped out a half a bottle of shampoo and I can buy more shampoo. Her feelings are more important than the shampoo and I'm like what, I'm like, how, what I'm like, how do you? But how do you make it stop? I don't know.
Speaker 4:I guess we're going to be learning that real quick.
Speaker 2:That's just got really deep and personal really quickly Sorry.
Speaker 1:That's what we do here. That's what we do here and my girls. So I have a four-year-old and a two-year-old and they love Bluey. And I love that they love Bluey, because it's kind of hard to find a cartoon that I'm like totally stoked on right now and Bluey is it, and so we've got a lot of the merch as well and the Bluey that she carries around and we take to the store. So we're huge Bluey fans. I have to say I guess I'm not watching Bluey as much as I should, but the ones that I have seen have been really good. So I appreciate that insight. I'm going to have to start listening to a few more of those.
Speaker 2:And I think that will benefit them.
Speaker 4:That's what I say when I watch it. I'm like it's making me a better parent, because just the way the dad and the mom interact with the kids, you're like, oh okay, you don't have to be very scoldy or something. You just got to tweak it a little bit.
Speaker 2:And then they'll get it. You can have discipline without anger or meanness, see, and that's yes, it's like whoa, what a radical concept. But I just didn't grow up that way, me either. You kind of find yourself repeating the patterns that you've been in, and it it's, it's so hard to do it differently. Yeah, I see my mother in myself all the time.
Speaker 2:No, my mom's going to listen to this podcast and she's gonna be like I was a good mom. She was, she was a wonderful mother, but she had a mom that was mean to her, and so she grew up mimicking that too.
Speaker 4:So Well too, so well, it's just funny generational yeah, it's like that whole story that, um I don't know if you've heard about it where the young daughter was in the kitchen with her mom and making a pot roast and she noticed the mom was cutting the end of the pot roast off to put it in the pan, and she asked her mom she's like so why are you cutting the end off? And she goes I don't know, that's the way my mother did it. And she asked her mother and she said so why didn't you cut the end of the pot roast off? She's like that's the only way I can get it to fit in the pan. So it's like she learned this trait by seeing her mother do it, but never really realized why.
Speaker 2:That's so funny, but there's so many things like that, that we all do, that we don't even know why.
Speaker 4:Exactly so. That's the thing I'm like taking into my brain going why am I cutting the? Pot roast end off.
Speaker 2:Why the dog buries the bone. You know nobody's going to steal it from you. Exactly, I'm not going to take your bone, it's okay. Well, thank you guys, for that was probably the most broken ice ever.
Speaker 1:I love it. Best way we want it.
Speaker 4:Awesome, let's have a cocktail.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're so excited to hear about your guys's journey and just like watching Marissa as she gets closer and closer to the end of her pregnancy. We're so excited for you guys and we've just been.
Speaker 1:Sunday's the big day, correct?
Speaker 3:It's our Sunday's our due date, but we're in this weird purgatorial state the two of us right now.
Speaker 3:So we live in Atlanta, georgia, but our surrogate lives in St Louis, missouri, and we don't know Missouri, we don't have any friends or family here, so we we decided we've rented a house. It's, depending on the time of the day and what ways says, it's about a six minute to eight minute drive door to door, from our front door to this to where you drop off people for the birthing center. So we are. We have always been anticipating this sunday, which is april 14th, for us to be our due date. But because this is marissa, our surrogate's third baby her first two are hers, of course, and then this one is is ours, that she's caring for us. We were told and he can speak to this too that the professionals said a third baby is very likely to come earlier. So they liked the idea of us being here about quicker, yeah, but or or faster.
Speaker 3:Yes or like right out the birth canal. So we got here being this is our first time and probably our only child. I'm 47, he's 51. We didn't want to miss anything. So we've been here for a week and a day now. We are really hoping that the baby comes on Sunday, but if not, we are set up here for another two weeks. So I'd like to not be here that long because I kind of miss our life back home. But yeah, it could be three days from now that we'll be parents, which would be amazing because we've waited long enough.
Speaker 2:My birthday is on Saturday, so if baby comes a day early, we'll be birthday twins and I love having a birthday on the 13th Cause I don't know, the 13th is just kind of fun every once in a while. It's on a Friday. The 13th doesn't happen very often, but it does happen and it's like it just feels extra lucky. So that'd be cool if that happened.
Speaker 3:It's my, it's funny, April 13th is remarkably popular. So April 13th is one of my all-time best friend's birthdays and my father's birthday, and then April 14th is my aunt's birthday and then possibly our child's birthday, and then mine is the 27th and our friend who's staying with us is the 16th and somebody who works for me is the third, and one of our best friends is the 19th. So this is the month I selfishly always wanted to have a baby that had an April birthday. His is in June, which is also a great time of year, but my birthday is April 27th. No matter where you live, that's like the best time of year because school's almost over, the windows are open, there's no major holiday you're competing with. So we're hoping the 14th would be ideal. The 13th would be pretty cool too.
Speaker 2:Yeah. April is a great time there are no competing holidays. It just gets to be all about you. Sometimes Easter is a little bit around, but not often.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's exciting. Well, april's going to be a good month for you guys. That's awesome, yeah.
Speaker 2:So how did we get here? I know you guys had thought. You said you thought about being parents. For when you guys first? Well, let's start here. Who are you? Would you like to introduce yourself? Well, let's start here. Who?
Speaker 4:are you? Would you like to introduce yourself? Okay, hi, I'm Hollis Smith and this is my husband, partner Brian Patrick Flynn, I mean.
Speaker 3:I can also say who I am.
Speaker 4:Why don't we do this?
Speaker 3:Why don't we start over? Why don't you tell them who you are, and then I'll go to who?
Speaker 4:I am Hi, I'm Hollis Smith. Yeah, tell them who you are. I mean, what do you want to know? They've never seen me.
Speaker 1:What do you do for work? I mean, what are your hobbies? Tell us a little bit about who you are.
Speaker 4:I didn't know this was a date what do you like to do for fun?
Speaker 2:What's your favorite color? No, just kidding.
Speaker 4:Okay, hi, I'm Hollis Smith. I am a costumer in film and television in Atlanta, georgia, and I've been into the arts for many, many years now, and that's kind of like my prime focus. I'm the carefree, artistic one. I guess you could say Now your turn, hollis.
Speaker 3:I'm Brian. Hollis is my significant other. He is an only child. I'm number three out of four children. I'm an interior designer and a production designer by trade. I design film and television sets and things for print and catalog as well, and we have completely different upbringings. Being number three out of four kids, I was in a house where you're always competing for attention. His upbringing had him, as the only child, 100% attention from his mom and his dad. So we come from completely different backgrounds.
Speaker 3:But what's really interesting about our story is we're going on 18 years in May or being together, and when we started talking about this, which is easily more than 15 years ago, the idea kept coming up and going away. Our careers kind of took off in our mid to late 30s and then by the time we both hit 40 or mid 40s it was like whoa, we could go to the next level professionally and then we kept putting off having kids because we knew that we wouldn't get these opportunities again. So what was really interesting about our situation was I, no matter what, have my lineage going on, because both of my sisters have multiple children. My younger sister just had her baby less than two weeks ago and she lives very close to us, so we're going to raise our children almost like siblings.
Speaker 3:This is number four for her. He's the only child, so what's great about our story is, biologically, our baby that we're expecting very soon is biologically Hollis', with our egg donor, so he no longer is the end of his lineage. Now, similar to myself, with my siblings having multiple children, we will also. He gets to carry on, so that was really important to us. I was going somewhere with this.
Speaker 4:That's why I let you take the lead. Hi, my name is Hollis.
Speaker 3:I do this a lot. We got to 2020, to the second week of March, and the whole world shut down and we were so happy we feel so selfish saying this we were home alone. We both traveled for work extensively. I'm usually gone about seven months of the year, but in 2020, when we were forced to be home alone in our cabin about an hour and a half north of Atlanta, we enjoyed every minute of it and it was because most of our friends who had hit their late 30s, early 40s, who had children, were now homeschooling, coming up with all the activities that kids had to do by themselves, with no other friends. They couldn't leave the house.
Speaker 3:Everybody was scared about getting sick and we were like, oh my gosh, maybe this is a sign from the universe. Like we totally enjoyed 2020 because we were home. We got to just chill out. But then, once everybody got vaccinated and back into the real world, the, I'm the one that started getting hit to you again. I was kind of like, okay, I'm turning 45, we just got over a massive thing in history that shut the world down. Maybe this is a good perspective of us to bring a kid into the world.
Speaker 2:The next thing, you know, here we are three years later're days away from expecting the baby.
Speaker 3:So it took that and a massive pandemic for us to realize, okay, let's think about are we going to do this or not. And we decided to do it later in life, which I think was right, because you know your finances are in order and you've already had life experience to decide what you want to do and what you?
Speaker 1:a smart idea. I actually have my two oldest, an 18 year old and a 16 year old, which I had very young, and then I convinced my husband we're very reluctantly to have another. So we have a four year old and a two year old and it is the best and most special experience because I am established, much older, the ability to really focus and give them what I need, and my oldest two. They also get that, but it's different, it feels different. So good for you guys and now that you're here, which is so freaking exciting.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I love that you have that perspective, because you have 16 year age gap between your baby and your oldest, so they are generationally different and now you're at a different point in life where you probably have learned so much that you can give a special attention to your two-year-old.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's neat because we had the opportunity to sit down with our big kids and tell them we're considering this, because I didn't want them to then think that this was their responsibility and taking on ownership of being big sister babysitting. I needed them to know that we were going to enjoy this and this journey that we were deciding to take and wanting them to be a part of it. So they were and they are the best big sisters. My four-year-old says her best friend is her big sisters, which is really pretty cool.
Speaker 2:It is so sweet to see them together, like when before Talia was born and you just had Trinity and she was the baby like everybody doted on her and she's just the sweetest, cutest little thing too and just really smart and really tiny and started talking and like walking really early. So she's just like this tiny little, like walking doll that everybody dotes on. I also have a big difference. So I had my oldest when I was 16 and he's 25 now, and so I actually adopted it's a long story, but his biological half sister when she was four. So now I'm doing like I was an empty nester and then I got a surprise four-year-old and she's so much fun and it's so fun to be a parent now, because when I was a kid, being a parent, I didn't have a lot to give and now I have so much more to give than I, than I did back then, and it's really rewarding.
Speaker 3:I think you both have super unique perspectives because on one hand, sometimes you, you, you, you were still a child when you had a child, and now you still are young and you have a child as an adult. And then in your situation, casey, it's like you, you did the young mom thing and you've done the regular age mom thing. So actually combined, you have like totally unique perspectives.
Speaker 2:Very unique, and we've both been surrogates multiple times too.
Speaker 1:I've been a surrogate three times, yeah, and I've done it twice, so it's I mean, that's how we got into this industry.
Speaker 1:I always joke and say in this industry you're going to meet a lot of professionals and usually they have a testimony of what brought them to surrogacy.
Speaker 1:And I had a friend struggle with infertility and for me it was this place of desperately knowing that I needed to help in that way. And you meet women and in this industry, really, truly, we are those geeks that passion now and know that we want to help parents like you who are interested in surrogacy and really kind of that leads into our podcast is this opportunity to bring an awareness of how special this is and the fact that you have this relationship with your surrogate. That, to me, those are the things that give us joy, because I know what that felt like for me on my journey with my intended parents. And now to see you with your surrogate and you're about to have a baby like these are the moments that we want to celebrate and scream from the rooftop. It's so worth it, but we it's it's taking you having these conversations and sharing these things with the with you know, with our parents that are considering.
Speaker 3:Okay, so let me just get this straight. So the two of us are gay, guys have been together for almost 20 years and here we are having our first child and we're not we're not physically having her. Marissa, our surrogate, is, and I'm I'm anxious because we're at the date where we could be having the baby any day now. And, casey, you have birthed six children. Correct and sunshine, you've done this.
Speaker 2:You've had four births I've had my one by my one biological child. And then my first journey I carried twins for two dads, oh my god. And then my first journey I carried twins for two dads, oh my God. And then my second and third were siblings for another family. So I've carried is that five?
Speaker 3:Yeah, Five kids four pregnancies, yeah.
Speaker 2:And then I have my adopted daughter too, so yeah.
Speaker 3:Wow, the idea that either of us have. Well, he's been super cool comic collective through it all but the past few days. This, not knowing his, I'm not. I don't have any skin in the game. It's not my body pushing the baby out, but I like floor that the two of you have done this so multiple times. Marissa is really the only surrogate we know. We don't know anybody else who's had a baby for anyone else, do we?
Speaker 4:know, we don't know anybody else, who's had a baby for?
Speaker 1:anyone else? Do we that we know of? Yeah, you know, I will say this. It's for women who have considered surrogacy and have the courage to explore this. Watching our parents, the parents, see them hold their baby and do skin to skin Aside from having kids of our own is probably a superpower feeling of like wow, and seeing them be whole and what they've desired is been is. It's just like why I love surrogacy, it's why we do it and it's why so many women consider surrogacy for a second journey. Is that that, at that end, right To see those parents hold their baby?
Speaker 2:It's why we can't carry any more babies right To see those parents hold their baby.
Speaker 1:It's why we can't carry any more babies.
Speaker 2:I know we would if we could seven C-sections between us.
Speaker 4:So we can't carry any more babies.
Speaker 2:It would not be safe. And um, yeah, we've been retired, we love, love, surrogacy. It's like I always that first day when the twins were born, after my first journey, I didn't really know what I was getting into. I just it was kind of an adventure and I, uh, I had no idea how special it was going to be and I it's just like a high that I'll be chasing for the rest of my life. Like FaceTiming with the crying grandmas in Australia. You know like they were so grateful. They didn't know that their sons would ever have children. You know they didn't know that it was ever going to be possible. So it was really special.
Speaker 4:Sorry, my phone's about to die Wow.
Speaker 3:Oh no Hold on, I've got an external battery. I guess I just didn't do enough research. Of course, I knew that both of you had a ton of experience with this subject and assumed that I cannot believe you've both done this multiple times.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the surrogacy is really special to our heart and I think that it's bringing an awareness of how normal this is and this is you know that there are parents out there who need a surrogate. So us being able to understand and share what parents struggle with I think that's why we were so excited to get on with you is have you share your perspective of some of the hurdles that you've kind of had to overcome exploring this idea of pursuing surrogacy in creating your baby? So I'm excited. I'm excited because what you're doing right now is you're going to help us being able to bring an awareness to other intended parents that this is normal and that there are going to be hurdles in this process, but, like, here are the questions I wish somebody would have told you to ask, and us being able to give those tools to other intended parents.
Speaker 4:I'm really glad you said that, because we were kind of discussing this and that was one of the biggest things for me in this whole process is the whole surrogacy process of making it normal, a normal thing, because you know, one of the misconceptions I feel like even we've run into a little time a couple of times in our journey is, you know one people always think a surrogate is somebody who is destitute and they're doing this for the financial gain And's like it's like no, it's like wonderful people like you and our circuit, marissa, who is like she.
Speaker 4:She is letting this thing happen to her body for our benefit. And it's like every time, especially since we've been able to be here on a like a daily basis, just seeing her. Every time we're just sitting there going like I marvel that you are allowing this to. Every time we're just sitting there going, I marvel that you are allowing this to happen. Even her wonderful husband sitting there, going, he is allowing this to happen for us. I mean, we're just, we're some rando strangers on a piece of paper. At one point and she had this thing, that need that she wanted to do, and wow.
Speaker 1:So tell me actually I'd love to dig into that a little bit when you saw her page and her information about her, what were those things that drew you to her and like, yes, she is the woman that's going to help us carry this baby.
Speaker 3:So what's different about our situation is the agency. Every agency that this is one of the questions we'll get into soon is totally different In our world. The egg donor side just like going to a modeling agency we get to choose who we're looking for, like a model would be for the job, based on who fits the criteria. We were physically seeing the traits of people who could potentially, if we had a baby, would resemble us together combined. But what's so interesting about the surrogacy side is that they choose us.
Speaker 3:So we were put on alert by the owners of the agency that hey, we know we've got your egg donor down and, of course, we chose an egg donor who was probably one of the most desirable and we were her last cycle. And then we knew that it could be two or three years to find a gestational carrier and we couldn't believe it. This was in October of 2021. And then, by the beginning of March 2022, kyle, who's one of the owners of the agency, was like believe it or not we have somebody who chose you and wants to do a Skype ASAP.
Speaker 4:He actually said we have a surrogate in mind that we think you might like, but we're curious to see if it's the one that we think you're going to like.
Speaker 3:No, that was our egg donor.
Speaker 4:No, they said that about her too.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but in the egg donor situation they have to choose us. So, like with the egg donors, it's like we choose them based on their physical traits, but we already know everybody's been screened for health. But with the surrogate it was the other way around. It was more like oh, there's somebody who already is interested in having for us, and then we did our first zoom and she was crying and then we were both slightly tearing up. Her husband came on and her kids came on too, and the surrogacy part was the easiest, because they chose us, she chose us.
Speaker 1:What? What were the things on that match call? So you had this match call, it sounds like, and got to know each other. What were those things that you knew? Like, yeah, this is a good fit, this is a good match.
Speaker 3:We can't tell you. So she had some remarkably specific questions and traits that you needed to fit, which, if we were doing what she was doing, you would put the same. But there were certain things like there were a lot of things that we are on the same page with in the world and at that at that point they were so specific, we're like we.
Speaker 4:This is our person like her yeah but she's our person.
Speaker 3:She's our person, but, uh, the fact that, like they're both like super pro science and I think anybody who's working in surrogacy and egg donation, you're're going to have to be super pro-science. So right there, to me, that was what sealed the deal. What about you?
Speaker 4:I think one of the biggest just factors is again, during the surrogacy discussion and journey. The one thing that we had talked about is we wanted that extended family option because I have the caregiver personality and it's just. I just couldn't fathom us going through this process and then being like okay thank you, bye. Never see you again.
Speaker 4:And you know I'm sure some surrogates feel like that's a necessary thing, but we just wanted to be able to still have that connection with her and their family later on and she was very like that was one of her criterias as well, and I was like, yay, we did not want to be transactional, there's no way.
Speaker 3:Like and y'all know more than we do but like it is so emotional all of this, and then the biology of it all, and then to just be like thank you so much, just like buying a hat or a pair of jeans, it's like absolutely not, like we need to somehow extend our chosen family and to include you into it somehow. So from the beginning we were like that. We knew that's what she wanted and her husband was open to it so as well. So we've always looked at this as is bringing aunt marissa into the world and to know my family and his family and our child, and then her children can be considered non-biological cousins. But from the beginning, he and I both looked at it that way. We didn't want this to be like going to another country, not really meeting the person and walking away. We liked the idea of letting it be extended family and I'm so happy she wanted that too, because this is such a unique experience and you got you combined, the two of you. You've done this. But the experience is such a bonding situation Like her husband is super into sports and hockey.
Speaker 3:We have no interest in sports. I mean, he goes to theater all the time. I decorate houses for a living. I watch sports. I watch. He says that to sound cool. He doesn't watch sports. I do. What's a touchdown question? Who? What does travis kelsey do for a living? He plays football. He's a quarterback. He's not a quarterback. Who does he play for kansas city chiefs? Okay, whatever, it's because of taylor swift, but no, he's taylor swift. But I also don't know the answer. But what I was getting at. I don't know where the hell is going with this. Um, we're talking about family and extended family. So the fact that her husband was also on board with this and we met him and we clicked with him and we clicked with their kids and it's just, I just similar to the two of you, like, look at you're doing this together and you have a bod. It is such a unique experience that I cannot imagine just saying wham bam, thank you, and walking away. It's like I don't want to forget this because it's so special.
Speaker 1:Yeah it really is, and you just took the words right out of my mouth.
Speaker 1:That's what it, that's what so many of these women it's rare for you to have somebody who doesn't, and it's okay if they don't. But I think so many of the women who decide to be surrogates are desiring to have that friendship and really will allow for it to happen organically, because that's how it has to happen. But there's that desire to see you and get to know you and make sure that you have that opportunity to bond and grow in that journey. And then afterwards, the surrogate baby I carry he is going to be 15 this year and my family and my husband and the intended dad text all the time and we do holiday trips once a year and spend time with them and we will continue and it's it is special, it is something unique and I think that's why we love surrogacy the way we do is because it has been able to bring a new extension to our family that I didn't even anticipate was going to be a part of this process in surrogacy.
Speaker 3:So it's pretty cool have you both carried for same-sex parents? Sunshine have. Have you carried for? Have you both had experience with same-sex parents?
Speaker 2:Just me, just me, oh really, both men and women, two dads.
Speaker 3:From Australia.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're in Melbourne. The twins how did that happen? Are eight. So the agency that I went through. Similarly, let me read through a bunch of profiles and I it's interesting because I, I grew up in a really conservative and religious household in the sense that, um, you know, not everybody who's conservative and religious is.
Speaker 2:So I, I grew up that way and when my oldest child was in middle school, she originally she came out as lesbian and then later he told me he, he's actually, he's trans. So I, when, um, I decided to choose a couple, I really wanted my son at the time I thought was my daughter to know that I was accepting because we had gone, like we had stopped going to our church and things. When, when Charlie I'll just say charlie, because the pronouns get confusing when I'm thinking of like back in time um, when he came, when he came out, I I wanted him to know that, like I was, so I was supportive, I wasn't just like I'm okay with it, I accept you anyway. Like I wanted to carry for a gay couple, specifically because I wanted him to to to see physically like I, I am okay with you, know, like I accept you and I love you and I and I and it doesn't, that doesn't make a difference. And so when I read the profile of my intended parents, they also were like so similar in their, their relationship to me and my husband and they were like super big dog lovers, like one of their photos was a picture of them in like matching Christmas sweaters with their dogs and matching Christmas sweaters and I'm obsessed with my dogs and so I saw that. And then, um, one of them was in it and my husband had a computer repair company at the time and was in it. And so I was like, oh, they'll have so much to talk about, but they were actually the first gay people I said at the time that I knew or that I ever met.
Speaker 2:But maybe I knew other gay people and maybe they didn't feel safe coming out to me, you know, or letting me know that, but they were the first gay people that I ever had a relationship with and it really changed my life in a big way because I love them so much and they are the most like open-minded, loving, kind people and even when people in my family were like having a hard time with me carrying for a gay couple, they felt I remember them saying, like when they found out how my mom was feeling, um, I they were like I'm so sorry that, um, I'm causing this strife, that we're causing this strife in your family.
Speaker 2:Like we feel bad. And I just remember thinking like they should not be apologizing, like we should be appalled my, we owe you an apology, you know, like you don't owe us an apology, like you don't owe me an apology for that. And it just made me realize, like, how wrong it was the way that I grew up and it opened it. Just like my husband, my so many people in my family actually now have come to a place of acceptance where they're like, oh yeah, everybody's just a person, you know, everybody just loves who they want to love. It's not wrong to love somebody. Like how could that be wrong, you know?
Speaker 3:Casey Casey, what about you? Did you? Did you have a lot of gay people in your circle, or were you similar to sunshine?
Speaker 1:So yeah, so I carry for two moms and dads a mom and a dad both of my journeys. My second journey. They were international, so they were Russia, and she spoke a little English and she had the ability to come and be a part of our journey, like flying here for several of the appointments. It was crazy, and so I have this relationship with my second intended parents that I carried for. The mom was more of a very independent, strong woman and her husband came and he hung out a few times but it was really just the mom that did a lot of that communication and building that relationship.
Speaker 1:But my husband and I actually have a friend. We met through a mutual friend and he is a gay man and so I have plenty of friends in my life that for me a family is a family and that really comes down to. If you decide you want to be a parent, I want to make you a parent, and that's kind of the biggest goal right now with surrogacy is, and what we're doing in our agency is making sure that anybody who decides to be a parent, whether it be a single parent, a gay couple that they have the ability to know that they are going to be represented and supported, and we're going to try to make that come true for them, you guys on being able to talk really through some of these stereotypic, crazy thought processes and be able to break down these barriers and make sure that we have a good example of what it looks like wanting a child and being a parent.
Speaker 4:So, thank you, thank you, but beautiful stories on both of your ends, thank you, thanks.
Speaker 3:Now we know more about you so I was like wait, who's what, who's what podcast.
Speaker 2:I'm not very good, I know like I feel like you guys, this is going to be the podcast where people learn more about casey and I than they ever have, and sadly, that's kind of our thing.
Speaker 4:We we draw people I dig it.
Speaker 2:I can do this again I gotta start watching bluey and learn how to pull stuff out of people the way you do. Is that part of being in television and film that you guys just know how to pull things out of people the way you do? Is that part of being in television and film that you guys just know how to pull things out of people?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Number one is feel comfortable so that their true selves come through, either, whether if it's just audio or video as well. You do, people end up having like a phone voice and you do it on TV, so you try. My job is usually to get rid of the phone voice and you guys do that with, but anyway, I should be more focused on my phone voice, cause.
Speaker 1:I'm the person right.
Speaker 4:So we'll give it back to you now.
Speaker 2:All right, well, so we know how you chose your surrogate and that's connection that you have with Marissa, and I get that to like Marissa. I remember when we first interviewed her, we didn't really even have a position for her and she, um, we didn't really even have a position for her and she, um, we made a graphic designer position and, oh my gosh, was that the best decision we ever made, like the best decision. That was a Kyle decision Good decision Kyle and my husband.
Speaker 2:He gets these ideas and he's like, what if I, what if we hire a graphic designer? And I'm like, what if we can't afford it? He's like, it'll be worth it, it'll be worth it, it'll pay off, and so it has.
Speaker 3:she's so amazing 10 million.
Speaker 2:But even more than that, like in her interview, I remember feeling like this is a person who cares so much about surrogacy and really believes in what we're doing specifically at surrogacy is because she had actually had a conversation before working.
Speaker 2:She didn't work with our agency and she didn't go through surrogacy is on our advocacy side either, but she had reached out after she had already been connected to her agency and one of our surrogate advocates, christina, who's our program manager, connected with her and was giving her advice and guiding her on some things and just supporting her, even though she wasn't going to be a client of ours.
Speaker 2:It's just, christina has a huge, huge heart and she wants to help everybody and that interaction I think Christina had continued to just check in on her sometimes and Marissa remembered that and she started crying in the interview because she was remembering, like how helpful Christina was and that it wasn't for any sort of gain for her, it wasn't business, you know, it wasn't a job, it was, and so she wanted to work here because she wanted to work for a place where we all were actually care about the people that were helping and she was just. So her interview was really moving. I was like okay, fine, kyle, we're hiring a graphic designer and I don't care what she does here, I just want her to work here. She will, we'll find something for her to do. She wanted to be a surrogate advocate and she might one day, but I don't know if I'm going to, I don't know if we can give her up because she's yeah, I was going to say say god, she is so good at what?
Speaker 2:she does. She's so talented too, though, like she just so connects with people and she's got such a big heart
Speaker 3:very true. Yeah, and this is exactly why we cannot just do the transactional side, because you guys are nailing it and same with us.
Speaker 3:so marissa actually designed the wallpaper for our our kids playroom. So, since she's a graphic designer, she knows how to make patterns, she knows how to deal with color theory, so it's going to print right now. So it's going to and it's brilliant, the idea we I had an idea, she brought it to life aesthetically and then we kind of rewrote it. When we got to the end, when we got to a, we got to a sticky part and it's perfect. It's like the meaning of two different minds. So, yeah, I think this is a very special type of situation and I think once you walk the walk and talk the talk, you want to be around other people who've done it, because it's a way of life.
Speaker 2:I want to see that wallpaper.
Speaker 1:I bet it's, I know please please want to be a part of that. It's pretty good.
Speaker 3:Basically, the whole idea is is our daughter grows up to be a huge success in any type of male dominated industry, which is what I wanted. There's even, there's, there's even one imagination where she's a hockey pro. There's one where she's a doctor, uh, and I could talk about it for hours, but it's taken us four months to design it, but we're really happy with it.
Speaker 2:That sounds really cool. I've got goosebumps, you guys. That sounds so cool, my youngest.
Speaker 2:I have, um, my husband has, um, a second cousin who's just like she used to be a school teacher and she's just like this super hippie, like wonderful creative person and she did this little book for my daughter, our youngest, when she was five for her fifth birthday and she had me send her photos and she cut out a bunch of pictures of her face and she made a book and it's like all the letters of the alphabet she could be so like on the a page there's like astronaut and architect and like you know all the things, and so every letter of the alphabet there's pictures, her little face stuck on, like different career things, and it's like it must have taken her dozens of hours to do it and to cut it all out and put it all together and it's like a fat book and I love it so much and it kind of reminds me of your wallpaper.
Speaker 3:Yeah, same, same objective, but I and I've done this sometimes. So what, there are some major questions to ask us to kind of, to kind of, we'll cover, like, like our, our whole experience. Right, I forgot what they were. We looked at them before.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, let's ask them. Okay, one of the big ones and I want to make sure we don't miss it is how do you guys plan to share your surrogacy journey with your daughter while she's growing up?
Speaker 3:I would say from the beginning we will always, once she's verbal, she'll know who Aunt Marissa is and then, as she understands you know communication more, it'll be more like to associate marissa with your birth person. Who like that? That's as far as I've gone. What would you say?
Speaker 4:well, I mean, I think the one thing that we've kind of already started doing is so much of the journey is documented on social media, so she'll have those sources of research, uh resources to go to. And I think it all kind of started when um someone's phone ran out of memory and so he was like I'm just gonna buy a new phone and I'm like, well, that's gonna be her phone, and so she's, and all these pictures of all the stuff that we've been going through and taking pictures that and doing it's already there on the phone. It's a good answer. It happened here in st.
Speaker 3:Louis, we were here for one of our one of our times to see marissa. It wasn't. This is how this is. What a dumbass I am. So we were here for an appointment with marissa and I realized I have so little memory left on my phone because I have like 137 images or a thousand images or something, and so at a certain point I'm like let's just get another phone instead of me having to wipe all these out and start from scratch. And then he was like well, why doesn't this? This is just a baby phone. Let's document all of our appointments. And there is that.
Speaker 3:Let's document all of our not sonogram, let's see other world ultrasound so she has a visual video record of everything from the very first time that we met marissa, through our first appointment, through the first doctor, through our actual experience um, uh expressions. The first time we found out that our embryos were all girls, we were in the airport. So there's a, we have a phone that has her entire life, from the time she was just an idea all the way up to the time she's able to use it, to use the device. So that is a very specific answer.
Speaker 1:Yes, that is such a cool, cool idea.
Speaker 4:Like I'm, can I steal that, because I think I will have to protect that phone with your life like it's bring it in the pool I mean, he carries it around with his other phone every day and I think some. We were somewhere the other day and he was like where's the baby phone? Where's the baby phone? Where's the baby?
Speaker 3:but tell him the one place I forgot to bring it. We were here to do an actual photo shoot with one of my friends, who one of my close friends, who's one of our photographers, and we were doing this elaborate photo shoot with Marissa to pitch, for all I have, a pretty high like somewhat of a public job. And when we knew that we were expecting and we wanted to be outside of our just our close friends, we started the conversation with People Magazine and Kelly, who's our photographer friend, came here and I wanted to be able to document this whole process behind the scenes with you know, this really cool moment with marissa all dolled up and somebody you know.
Speaker 3:Her makeup and hair was done and the only the only phone we had was his ass phone, which had very little memory of the old camera on it. But the good news is we at least have those, those real images from the photographer. But the whole reason I wanted that phone was to capture those types of moments. But these are the things that we we do feel like we're going to be good dads because we're already thinking about these things, like I guess fathers would if they had a child who was already like out of the womb, functioning in the world and, uh, even talking about it gets me excited. I just hope I don't mess it up, and I don't think I will because I'm not.
Speaker 4:You know, I'm 47 and and I think the thing, too, that's, um, also going to help with telling the story is so many people in our family and friends have been invested with the journey that we're having that they'll be able to even share the story with her on like where they were when we talked to them or, or, you know, even came up with the idea. Or, you know, we have two amazing friends that are actually coming here to St Louis to be with us when she's actually born and you they'll be, you know, in the room, or not really in the room, but around with us when that's happening. So you know they'll be able to share their story with her, and I just think that we just so there's some really great books If you want any good tips.
Speaker 1:Joey Guzman he is a professional in the industry. He's also a father through surrogacy. Him and his husband Rob decided they were getting in.
Speaker 1:He's a licensed marriage and family therapist from that perspective of the child being able to read it. And so he said I've been reading these books to my daughters from day one, so they know their story. And he will say stuff like and here's you, and here's an auntie, you know Marissa. So it gives them an opportunity so that they can from day one. You're literally reading a book about their story. And so now they know their story and they're three and four and they'll go and tell anybody that will listen that how they were made and how they were aired and it's pretty cool. So that's something you guys should look into.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it sounds like a good idea. That's right up our alley. And that leads me to one of the other things that I really like talking about, especially the two of you, is 90% of the people that we meet. Once we've showed them pictures of Marissa, they'll be like oh, she's darling, she's so lovely, the baby's going to look just like her.
Speaker 3:And then we have to stop them and be like okay, a surrogate or gestational character is not the same as an egg donor. And a lot of people are like what, the same as an egg donor? And a lot of people are like what? And I understand now, because I mean, if this wasn't something that was I was a teenager in the mid to late 90s this still wasn't a thing. So they don't understand the process. So I think a lot of people don't really understand that when it comes down to this, you have it's two stop. It's like who's going to be biologically mixed with the sperm and then also who's going to carry. So we have. I feel like we've been having to educate a lot of people. We don't mind doing it because we didn't know either. But do you come across that? A lot too, they're like oh, so how does it feel having a bunch of little sunshines or a bunch of little cases.
Speaker 2:I was at Christmas Eve with some of Kyle's family and one of his cousins was like I don't even know how it came up, but, like we, they were also supportive of my journey and everything like his side of the family, they were great about it. Um, but he's like, yeah, I don't know how it came up, but that I wasn't, they weren't my babies, cause I think I was showing pictures of them, cause they were. They were getting older and I was like, oh, yeah, here's the twins. And he's like they really don't look anything like you. And I was like, wait a minute, hold on.
Speaker 2:Did you think that? Did you think that these were my children, like all this time, six years, or you thought that I, you thought that I like these were my kids and I let them go live in Australia and like, I'm like, and you were still so supportive and loving about it, like you're amazing, that's awesome. He's like, yeah, I thought that was really like, like, really cool then that you were really strong for being able to do that. I thought that was really neat, you know. But I was like, yeah, no, it's not like.
Speaker 2:I remember them showing me how they chose their egg donor and they chose their egg donor. They're so sweet and so like. They showed me pictures of their egg donor and all of the pictures she's wearing a lot of makeup and like fake eyelashes and you know all of it. And I was like, do you have any pictures of her like natural face? And they were like oh yeah, yeah. And they sent me one and I was like that's, she's wearing a lot of makeup in this photo that's like.
Speaker 3:The one time you don't want to wear makeup is when you are going to be the egg donor, because that's when somebody wants to know your physical characteristics yeah, but they're like I feel like they're like as maybe as men.
Speaker 2:They were just like kind of clueless about, like, how much makeup women wear or like that women don't don't look like that, like I don't know. Like they thought that we're all like Muppets and we come, but I thought it was really funny.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, so they, they had fun choosing their egg donor and I think that's probably probably one of the biggest things that for for gay men is making that decision, who's going to be the sperm donor, who's going to be the egg donor how do we make this decision, like that's got to be? I, you have already kind of explained how you made that decision, because you have a big family and hollis doesn't.
Speaker 3:But, um, I think for a lot of gay couples, I don't, I don't know how they come to that well, we actually started off differently because when we created embryos, we had a total of five embryos and they're all female. There were three that were mine and two that were his, and we went based on the ratings of the embryos, basically which one had the biggest chance of a live birth. I had one particular embryo that was just stratospherically higher than all the others. So we were like we are absolutely trying this. First, we only made it to about between nine and 10 weeks and Marissa had never had a miscarriage before, so it was really heartbreaking.
Speaker 3:I was there for the heartbeat ultrasound and I wasn't freaking out when I found, when I didn't hear anything, and neither was Marissa, cause they were like you know what? This? We could be here a week or two, because with surrogacy and with embryos that you've, the dates are kind of squishy A little early, yeah. So like they were kind of like let's do it again in a week, and at that point I had already signed off psychologically and I was like okay, if this one didn't make it, she, she made it to the size of a blueberry, like okay. So that in my head I'm like let's rationalize, we're not talking about something that made it all the way to month nine or nine and a half.
Speaker 3:But then when we found out we were going to have to try again, it made sense, since we already tried a Brian embryo, to try a Hollis embryo, and I also kept thinking if I had one that didn't have what it needs to make it to a live birth, this is a perfect chance for us to see if Hollis can make it to the finish line. And miraculously, here we are, past full term. So that was part of this process. But I do think if we had to choose anyway, I would have still gone the route of let's having a biological child of Hollis's to keep his lineage going, don't you agree? Just because there's a bunch of freaking kids in my family now?
Speaker 4:I mean, I'm whatever happens, happens that's kind of my philosophy in life.
Speaker 3:Sadly it's not an aggressive kind of personality understatement he's so not aggressive, he's super passive and he's super supportive and he's super chill all the freaking time so that's another reason when I was deciding who do I want to have a baby with and I mentioned the pandemic it was like, yeah, like we're both super calm. I have really bad generalized anxiety disorder and when all of a sudden, the world shut down, I found myself I'm so used to fight or flight that I was in my zone.
Speaker 3:I'm like, hey, the world's freaking out. I'm going to chill out because they're freaking out for me and he's so calm that it was like, actually this, this dynamic, might be great from a parenting standpoint. So, as of this point, as of this point, you know we still have a few days or weeks left and we think we're one and done, but I'm sure you've had plenty of people I know I'm kind of thinking you might not be one and done.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, you have all those girl embryos just waiting to have their shot. Well, let's just yeah, I think, take it. Take it one day at a time. Let's see how you feel when you're getting up for sleep. And you've also spent a long life up to this point being able to do whatever you want whenever you want, kind of yeah, it changes a lot when you have a little person that relies on you for every need.
Speaker 2:I think that was the most shocking thing for the newborn was like I can't take a shower, I can't have a bowel movement, like without considering this person, like sometimes if you put them down they cry. You have to take them with you and you're like tired and you're like holding a baby on the toilet. You know like that's, but then you know what you guys then you've probably ever had in your life and then that's the easy part.
Speaker 1:and then you forget about it, you guys. And then you forget those hard parts and you have a toddler and you're looking back and you're looking at each other and you're saying oh, do you remember when you're looking at those photos of that sweet baby? Do you remember when she learned how to walk, do you remember? And then that's what gets you. So just wait, you'll see, there will come a point, after that sleepless night that you'll be reaching that place of. Maybe we aren't done, maybe we are considering another one.
Speaker 3:You're totally right. We've already had the discussion that it's just going to be so weird for him to possibly be like 53 and me to be 49 and be like, hey, we're about to have another newborn. But I also think that the age thing has changed with technology and the way yes, it has well, even like with working out and eating properly, in the way we dress. When we were little, when our parents were in their late 30s and 40s, they, they were dressing in grandma and grandma way. But now even people in our parents age group, like people in their 60s, early 70s, could easily pass for 48 now.
Speaker 3:So I mean I have to admit that the times have changed. Everybody takes care of better care of themselves now.
Speaker 2:Also, it's kind of nice to think about your child having a sibling. You know, like having a sibling, I know, Hollis, you're like, well, I don't know what that's like, I don't know, I've never had one, but having siblings are like. Your siblings are the only other people that know, like how crazy your parents are and are there for you, you know.
Speaker 4:True. I mean, a lot of people ask me that, what you know, what's it like being an only child? And I was like you know, growing up is actually really great because you know I never had to like fight for it.
Speaker 2:You didn't compete.
Speaker 4:I didn't have to compete. Maybe that's why you're so chill.
Speaker 3:Maybe, he's so chill I have to check to see if it's a pulse most days.
Speaker 4:But a lot of times too, I you know, now that I'm older I look at it going it's. It's a little harder growing up not having a sibling, because it made me responsible right off the bat, because I don't have that little sidekick to to blame for something wrong or use as a scapegoat or anything like that.
Speaker 2:You know if the lamp was broken in the house. Yeah, that was me, so you know I'm just kind of like.
Speaker 4:I like the idea of like when I know there's mischief I know who to go to? Yeah, you know who?
Speaker 2:it was. I think there's definitely benefits to both. With my kids, I feel like they're both growing up as only children, because, you know, charlie was already out of the house when we adopted jasmine and and Jasmine is growing up as an only child, with this sibling that lives far away. So it's they. They have a sibling, but then they're also only children. But you guys will do not have the luxury of spreading them out that far.
Speaker 3:No, I mean we will lead a system living but the other thing that's been really fun lately is so we're down to the, to the, to the days and the hours and one of the things we've been told we love learning from parents who already have kids but we were told about when it comes to onesies. I got up and left because we have Amazon packages coming nonstop, because we freaked out last minute finding out that a lot of times when it comes to onesies you throw them away because the kids go to the bathroom. So much in them. But I think this is becoming one of the funnest parts of becoming first time parents is all the little things that you get. They have every possible onesie. They have like all like album covers and bands and it's so much fun and that's why I got up for a second. I'm like please tell me the rolling stones.
Speaker 2:One came there's this one that looks like um, it's like you know, joy division. That that album. I forget the name of the album but it says toy division and it has it. It's like the same album cover and it looks so cute and I want that so badly but I don't have a baby to give it to you and everybody know that's having babies doesn't probably care about joy division well, they have the same thing with um, acdc.
Speaker 3:instead of saying acd, it says AB, and then lightning bolt CD.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's genius, it's so cute. What other questions do we want to get to? I had one question for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think here's what I want to ask you guys as parents kind of entering into this process of surrogacy. Obviously you don't know what you don't know when you're going into this, and I think that's a sticking point. What would you tell other listeners parents considering surrogacy, dads considering surrogacy entering into this process? What are the things that you want them to know or things to consider when they're entering into this process?
Speaker 3:You go first because we have. We have completely different perspectives, but they're a nice balance together.
Speaker 4:Um, you know, I think first, the biggest thing is like really stop and think about what you're about to take on. We, again, we're older, we're more mature, so we've been able to really ponder through it and we, even, when the decision came up, we went to, we went to a therapist about it because I was like we really need to talk about it, because, again, we were at a place where I was very happy with how our life was and where it was going and, you know, being able to just hey, let's go here for the weekend and just throw bags in the car and go well, you know, with a kid, that's all gonna change.
Speaker 3:Like one time we were like we'd never been in Amsterdam and it was raining out and we're like, okay, the weather sucks here and we went to Amsterdam Like that's not normal, it's never going to happen again, but we done it. We did it yeah.
Speaker 4:So I I just think it's important to level Um and then, uh, really do your research. Uh, especially as the same sex couple, the biggest thing that we have learned is there's so much legality to go through. I'm just like blown away that you know the fact that, um, when she comes home and we get back to Georgia, we have to go to an adoption attorney because he has to file for adoption to be legally able to tend to his child.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I would say my answer is 80% of what you are going to be dealing with is legal, like the science. Stuff is already cut and dry. But the other thing is my perspective is to keep your circle super tight. The reason I say that is everybody has an opinion and you will sometimes find out one of your best friends or somebody you know, even part of your family your whole life doesn't get it and after a while it's cute when somebody's curious and they want to know more about it. But then there's also like a I don't get it way where it feels super judged or opinionated and you start to.
Speaker 3:If you're going through this and you're somebody who's considering surrogacy and also egg donation and obviously we're here for surrogacy is, but there are going to be people that are going to have opinions or you can tell from the body language. It makes them uncomfortable, which is so freaking weird to me because half of my friends, heterosexual people, have gone through IVF, because not everybody is super fertile and everybody has this roller coaster to get to where roller coaster. But I have found that we have kept this. We started with a really tight circle, really small, and slowly expanded and then, when I was ready to go public with it.
Speaker 3:It was great, but what it allowed us to do is protect ourselves from the people to be like I think that's weird, that is less than point one percent of the people out there. But just like when you go to a party and or you go somewhere and you're in a room full of 100 people and 99 of them like you and one, doesn't you only focus on that one? We don't want that around. We want to focus on having this baby come into the world and raising her. But I would say, keep your circle small, because people's opinions, they take the fun and the joy out of the expectations. And I'm looking at it from a psychological standpoint and I think that when you have somebody raining on your parade with something that's the biggest, biggest decision you're making in your entire life, just keep that. Get that noise gone.
Speaker 2:Yeah, same as if you're being a surrogate, like you'll get, you'll get those those people too. And I I ended up regretting sharing so openly that I was going to be a surrogate when I did, because I did get a lot of negativity and a lot of people's opinions that, like I don't know why people are so comfortable sharing those opinions Like nobody asked you, I'm not, I'm not asking you to be a surrogate.
Speaker 3:I'm not asking any of you, so it's the same thing.
Speaker 2:When you like share a baby name, right, like it's better to not tell people like I, everyone wants to know. I wanted to ask you do you guys have a name? I'm sure you do, but I won't ask you, because if you tell somebody the name you're thinking of and they have a negative opinion about it, they'll just say that to you. But if you tell them this is my baby's name, meet her there They'll shut up. Hopefully, right, yeah, hopefully, hopefully.
Speaker 4:And I think again that comes a lot. Comes a lot of that we've dealt with in, especially the name aspect, is being mature adults. With this process Now it's like we don't fucking care what you think our baby is.
Speaker 3:Is this our baby. It's not going to change and this is what we decided on as adults, we. So we decided we wanted something really original. We both have irish backgrounds. You can't nobody like search a road and nobody can pronounce girls names or siobhan, so we wanted something that was irish and something that was unusual. And we both fell in love with the name clover. So her name is clover.
Speaker 3:But, um, when we were telling our family over thanksgiving my, my brother's reaction that just we knew this was coming from someone, and going back to why, you said people don't tell that this was, this, was that's interesting. Just keep you, don't have to say that's interesting. Like, we know that. Like, just say nothing, because 99% of people are like I've never thought of that as a name and that is an adorable name. Thank you so much Because, even if you didn't like it, that's our daughter's name. But you're so right, it's you don't want. But once the baby's born, you're right, right, sunshine, they can't, they won't say anything like that, but it's almost like we're going to change our mind and be like okay, we'll go with.
Speaker 4:Growing up with an unusual name. It was difficult at times because I remember, you know, going to the souvenir shop at Disney World or something and never finding my name on a plaque or something like that, and that was part of our discussion going well, are we going to choose something that's really, you know, obscure, that people are going to? She's going to have that kind of moment. And then you know, fortunately today, we make your own plaque.
Speaker 2:Yeah, amazon, I can print that in my bag. Yes, yeah, I had that experience when I was a kid. I always wished that my name was Jennifer or Tiffany or something like. I hated my name but now I'm so grateful for my name. I love having an original name and and my name is on everything. Like I buy so much sunshine crap Like, and I'm like I feel like if. I had narcissists, cause all my clothes say my name on them.
Speaker 1:Cause I buy clothes with sunshine's name on it and I'll say I'm wearing sunshine all day long, so it works.
Speaker 4:But the thing too is like we have friends now that talk about their kids. Are in a class with four other people with their kids same name and I was like. Poor kid is probably like every time their name is called going. Oh wait, is that me?
Speaker 3:yeah, like henry, like henry and harper, like these are names I love, but like whoa or there's a bunch, there's there's very particular names, or even oliver, which has always been a favorite, there are, there are quinn, like there's a bunch of names that are so classic and now everybody has them, we're hoping similar to Sunshine. Well, casey, your name gets ripped to shreds because there's 19,000 ways to spell Casey and nobody's right. I mean, I have a lot of friends named Casey and I don't think any of them spell their name exactly the same way.
Speaker 1:Well, I spelled my. So I chose my daughter's name very uniquely Trinity and Talia and I spelled Talia completely different to the point that I think when she's later so T-A-L-I-A-H, and I guarantee you when she gets older, she's going to be like what were you doing? Because nobody is going to be able to look at that and phonetically know it's Talia, because it could be Talia. There's a lot of different ways that you could look at that and think that's how that's spelled.
Speaker 3:But I wanted to go unique too. She's not going to have any other trinities around her, is she? No, she's not. She was supposed to be the last.
Speaker 2:She was supposed to complete the trinity, and then Talia came around.
Speaker 1:Well you, guys, and it was on purpose, I'm telling you, you have that one and I looked at my husband going remember when she was a baby and he's like, yeah, let's do it again. And I had to convince him for trinity.
Speaker 4:And now we are with our fourth and final, final, final plus the name, like trinity, you'll be able to classify what generation that person's coming from, because they'll be like oh, is that from Matrix?
Speaker 1:Oh yes, Everybody says that.
Speaker 4:Go away, millennial.
Speaker 2:Nobody's watching that anymore. They don't know what, any only older people ask you that right, like her kids in class, won't say that to her, so that's at least right, Exactly, You'll know what generation they are.
Speaker 4:I'm like hey go away.
Speaker 1:What was our other question that we wanted to touch on.
Speaker 2:Was there anything else? I feel like we've covered a lot of ground. We will be in a lot of trouble.
Speaker 1:If we don't do the mean tweets, let's do those okay, a couple of those mean tweets oh boy and then we can be done we got some heavy ones as long as you feel like you caught everything on that list. There was a very nice extensive list there I think, um, I think alex has got a lot of good stuff that we can share that perspective. So I think the only thing if there was anything else.
Speaker 2:let me just tell you, guys, what our other questions were, Cause maybe this is something you want to answer or touch on. Um one was what challenges have you faced as intended fathers during the surrogacy process? Were there any particular challenges or did we cover that? Do you feel? I feel like?
Speaker 1:we kind of did to me it's really.
Speaker 3:The only thing is like most children grow up with a mother. You know, majority of kids grow up with a mother and a father and in our situation we don't really have that maternal perspective to offer. So we have surrounded by ourselves with our friends who are female, who have a bunch of kids or not, and our aunts, and around a lot of babies. That is a challenge because, like we both are remarkably close to our mothers, like they're definitely both mama's boys and so the idea that we're going to have a child who and luckily, you know, there's always daddy's girls, which is fantastic.
Speaker 3:So we do have that perspective where she's not going to have a mother figure. Of course her aunt Marissa will and my sisters will fill that, but I feel like there's only so many books you can read. And then there's the time where you have to say I'm just going to figure it out and that, and that is the thing I'm going to figure out how to make sure she has a balance of, you know, a paternal and a maternal point of view coming at her, which we will. We'll tap into our masculine and feminine properties with each of us, but it is something we want to think of because we all grew up having both of those as kids who grew up in the eighties and the nineties. So it is a different way of life when both of your parents are the same gender.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think about like on mother's day. I remember thinking about that with the twins. Like on mother's day. How do they feel when you know that kids in class are making mother's day gifts? What did the boys do? Like maybe they make things for their grandmothers or for their aunts, um, but I hope they don't feel any type of way about it that you know really, well, I know and I think it's that's kind of like.
Speaker 4:The challenge that I feel like is the exciting part of all this for me is the fact that we are getting to flip that norm upside down. Yeah, and people are going to sit there and think going, and I really hope Clover is the kind of person who's going to grow up going. But wait, it's mother's day and I have two dads, so I'm still able to do this project Right.
Speaker 2:Can I make one for my daddy?
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, and I have some amazing grandmas and aunts and and so many people surrounding me love me. It doesn't matter, you know, like I don't know.
Speaker 2:I guess it's not like she will have lost a mother, which is you know. Maybe if you're a child who's lost your mother, Mother's Day would be really hard for you, but if you didn't ever have something, maybe you don't miss it, Like Hollis doesn't miss his siblings because he didn't have them.
Speaker 3:Yeah, his siblings because he didn't have them. Yeah, and I do think that is another reason that we're we're Marissa, because grant Marissa will be the person who's bringing our child into this world. So, in fact, you know, for the sake of Clover not being left out, we think that is probably the direction we'll go. Plus, my sisters are also very, ever present in our lives as well, so we will cross that bridge when we get to it.
Speaker 3:But the whole idea of having a child who doesn't have the maternal and the paternal perspective is just something that has been on my mind, but we're going to cross that bridge when we get to it.
Speaker 2:And she gets to have two daddies that love her Like, I think the benefit of having two. It's really about having two parents. Like having a single parent is hard and has a lot of challenges, but she has two parents that get to come together in or a team so I think that it's not really a loss, it's just different yeah, it's just different.
Speaker 4:But I will tell you, the biggest thing that I had the biggest challenge with was like what is she gonna call me?
Speaker 3:I don't care he cares I guys, have you decided?
Speaker 4:he knows, I mean I do, I do because, um, I like, I I don't like the term daddy, because unfortunately our community has kind of tweaked that word away. That just doesn't feel right anymore. Um, so I'm gonna go for a very classic feel and go with pops, because I like that like retro feel of like 50s. Hey, hey pops, what's up.
Speaker 3:You know, and I just I just don't know, but I I shouldn't say that, because the more and more I speak to people like you who've done this before, I've learned. I've heard that the children learn to talk based on seeing you repeatedly say something and associating something audible with something visual. I will, I will probably just go by dad. But if all of a sudden she does something adorable and pronounces something wrong, like, let's say, instead of father, she comes up with her own, I might go with that. I'd love for it to happen organically and to be original.
Speaker 3:But I am 100% good with dad, which is a blessing the fact that he wanted something that wasn't dad, because that would get tough. I don't think either of us wants to be daddy, because when you think of daddy you think of a little kid up to the age of six saying daddy, but then you know you're in your teens, in your 20s, and you're saying daddy. It just seems a little more juvenile. So I think that this is good that he doesn't want dad, because I've got it on reserve. But if she comes up with something more unusual, I'll go with that, yeah yeah, yeah my dad's been is our daddy and we do yeah, so wait, what do you do?
Speaker 3:what are the names?
Speaker 2:uh, daddy g and daddy j, they're gavin joe, so that's what their twins are and my daughter, my youngest she.
Speaker 2:When she first came to live with us, she started calling me mama right away, but she kept calling kyle kyle, which drove me crazy, because kyle came into my life when charlie was six and so he was always kyle and I was always mom. And then when we got jasmine, I was like, okay, this is a child that's going to be ours together, that that we're going to be mom and dad. And then I was mom and he was Kyle and I was like, damn it, people are going to think like, but then she started calling him Papa and she calls him Papa. I love it, I love Papa. I think it's so sweet.
Speaker 4:That's sweet.
Speaker 3:What about you, Casey? Yeah?
Speaker 1:So my husband is Hispanic and so we've always raised the girls and said poppy. So she calls the girls call him poppy, and it is the cutest thing hearing these little girls call him poppy.
Speaker 2:There's so many different spins my brother-in-law's poppy to my sister's husband. He's, he's Mexican and the kids always called him poppy. And they still call him Poppy and they're in like late teens now.
Speaker 3:They still call him Poppy. Are you both mom, or are you mommy?
Speaker 2:I'm mama, Mama both.
Speaker 1:of you, I think I'm mama or mommy. Yeah, not mom. Mom is too formal.
Speaker 2:I'm mommy. My oldest calls me mom, but Jasmine calls me mama.
Speaker 3:There you go. I could have these conversations for days, because everybody's different, you know. Not everybody wants to.
Speaker 2:You know what's going to happen is what you guys call each other, is what she'll learn. So if he wants to be pops, you have to start calling him that yeah. Yeah, that's a pretty good point.
Speaker 3:You're right, it's going to change?
Speaker 4:Definitely got to stop calling me what you've been calling me colony.
Speaker 3:Yeah, um wait, did you say one of the things you like to talk about is mean tweets? Because that's one of my favorite subjects.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, yes, we have some means, we, so we don't have tweets, but we get a lot of um comments on our social media that we have to like, block and delete constantly. But we we grabbed some of them for you to share with you and see how we can never respond to them. I've learned really early that you just do not engage, you just block and delete because it never goes where you want it to go. But since they're not here to engage with you, we'll just share them with you and you can respond to them as you see fit. So drop them in the chat.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm about to grab one and I'm going to drop it in here into the chat. What I'd love for you to do is we'll post it and then kind of when it's all put together, so that it shows up. But if you could read it and then respond to it and I just chatted it to you, oh, ok.
Speaker 3:It says. You want me to say what it says?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:Yes, let's give a little context here. I also I remember it was my brain a little context here.
Speaker 4:I also. I remember it was my brain I deal with.
Speaker 3:I don't think it was all of it. I only saw a portion of it, though. So I deal with this a lot too Like this is a huge part of what I have to deal with with my job is I have to deal with really negative comments on a normal basis, and I have also learned do not engage, because then it gives them what, what they want. I have my all of my alerts set up, so if there's any negative words that just I'll never see their comment. But the first one, that being said, the first one that we're seeing here, says this is a new form of porn and no one gets it. How many children have to go unadopted? But y'all have money and time to do this.
Speaker 3:If I was to respond to that which I never would publicly, because that sounds like it's from a bot If it's not from a bot, it's from somebody who's remarkably intolerant. If it's not from a bot, it's from somebody who's remarkably intolerant. Like I said before, the majority of the people that I know who've had children did not just absolutely get pregnant by trying once they had to go through some form of IVF. So there's nothing about this. It's just for rich people. It's something that people go into debt over, and that is a remarkable. That's just a stupid, that's a very uneducated, intolerant comment, right Well first off, mine is like what kind of porn are you watching?
Speaker 4:Is this going to be something that you find as an acceptable form of entertainment? There's no sex involved.
Speaker 3:It is an invasive procedure in which somebody goes into the uterus. It's so stupid. It's like did you ever take a?
Speaker 4:science class. But it's just like I feel like all those that can't have children are still, you know, outcasts because we can't have children and, you know, some people just can't adopt even.
Speaker 3:Here's another one. Okay, surrogacy is basically human trafficking. Oh my gosh, hold on Wait.
Speaker 1:We're throwing the book at you guys, because these are the stupid things that come across and it's just ignorance is what it is, but it's nice to have a perspective that shares this.
Speaker 3:Well, it says surrogacy is basically human trafficking. It's harmful to women and babies. Okay, I don't even want to justify it with an itch. That's just stupid.
Speaker 4:I can see how like flush I'm getting just reading these comments, because they're so.
Speaker 2:Servate me. It's like my blood pressure when I would be like.
Speaker 3:My immediate reaction is like are these type of people to get pregnant? Looking at someone because they're making it sound like, oh, you know, it's time to have a baby, let's go get a baby out, you know. But I don't know, like it's not, how this works, like there's a bunch of money, a bunch of time, science.
Speaker 4:Well, first off, again, it's ignorance. They do not understand what human trafficking is.
Speaker 3:It's also a default thing that people say now.
Speaker 4:He tries to go a little more fun and lighthearted, or I get really upset about it.
Speaker 3:I can laugh about it. I think people are stupid and I take a moment.
Speaker 4:But, yeah again they don't understand what human trafficking is in the real sense. And surrogates aren't prostitutes. They're, they're, you know, willing participants of all this highly educated, successful, professional women who, biologically, are the only people that can bring to life somebody's biological child that misconception that I talked about earlier is like everybody thinks a surrogate is somebody who's down on their luck and desperate in life and needs some kind of financial you know, whatever, and it's like no no wait, do you have any more?
Speaker 3:I want to.
Speaker 1:Just I'm addicted yes, here's the last one you can read it.
Speaker 4:They feel like it seems yeah this is actually seems low for what you are doing.
Speaker 3:I'm going to jump in here because I'm actually a spelling bee champion. Uh, the grammar here is really bad. It says I will read it says this is actually seems low for what you are doing and this is the reason I can laugh at these things is I don't think anybody on this conversation right now knows anybody in real life who would ever leave negative comments. Once you do this on the internet, it is a permanent record. So when it is somebody who's there especially blue checkmark people who actually have a lot of notoriety, and they leave negative comments like this, it is down there forever in history as you're just being a total asshole. So it seems low what you are doing. It actually seems low for what you are doing. Which? What do they mean?
Speaker 2:They're talking about the compensation. We'll advertise a range of compensation between $45,000 and $85,000, depending on experience and other factors for the base. Compensation for surrogacy they feel that that seems low.
Speaker 3:Well, I think I'd like us both to chime in here. I think, first of all, the way they wrote that was terrible. That was not proper English. But we are the wrong people to complain about that, because we knew we wanted to become fathers. So I'm making these numbers up If the average rate for a surrogate was $75,000 or $240,000, we would have been saving appropriately for the past 10 to 15 years to afford either, Because if that's how much they cost, we find the right person to do it. But for somebody to say something is too low, it's to each his own. But I mean, who is somebody to put a dollar amount on it? Who?
Speaker 4:is somebody to put a dollar amount on it. Yeah, again, it goes back to the misconception that these people think they're a commodity that's being purchased and it's not. I'm sure they go around the world sitting there going. My child is priceless to me. Okay, our child is going to be priceless to us as well, and congratulations for having sex with a baby.
Speaker 3:That doesn't happen when you're the same gender.
Speaker 4:The whole thing is priceless in the way that the surrogate is giving us something that is priceless. It's like we would put as much money on it as we want or little as needed, because the surrogates are such caring, wonderful people that it's not about money.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I would say to tie up what he's saying. Um, when you find a surrogate, the price is what the price is If it turns out that somebody thinks $45,000 is too low, but that's what the surrogate is willing, that's what they want to do it for. To be able to do this for someone else, Amazing If they're able to charge a hundred $203,000. That's great too. To judge anybody for what they got for it, they have no idea what. There are plenty of surrogates who are probably financially independent. They could be millionaires or billionaires and just love the idea of doing this for a close friend. So judging how much it costs is ridiculous At the baseline is they're putting a dollar amount on love.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you can't do that. Yeah, that's a good answer. Yeah, that's not how this works. This works based on emotion and what you can do to help somebody, enhance somebody's life or bring their dream to reality. So everybody else, shut the hell up.
Speaker 2:That's how I feel about it. I feel like, um, there's really, if you're talking about how much money is worth it to go through IVF, to carry a pregnancy, to give birth, to go through postpartum, all of that, like how much money is worth it? There's no amount that's worth it. There's nothing, there's no you're so right.
Speaker 3:There's not no amount of money in the world.
Speaker 2:So if you want to do it just for money, there's not a, there's not a right amount, it's any amount's going to be too low. You have to be more than that. It has to be about wanting to help somebody, the joy of it, the desire to like the magic of of helping somebody build their family.
Speaker 4:That is part of the compensation, I think the funny thing is is like I think if a wife went up to her husband and said, oh, you want me, want me to get pregnant, it's going to cost you this much, they'd pay it. They'd be like yeah, whatever it costs.
Speaker 3:Or the opposite.
Speaker 4:All of a sudden it's like why is somebody's worth by money?
Speaker 3:Do you remember when you asked the question, like you said, as people I followed you when you all asked the question like what, what, what? Like advice would we give? Or basically that that that's exactly why it said to keep your circle really small is because the thing is, once you, once you get outside of that small circle and people start asking questions, then they use that. You know, conversations are always done like a game of telephone or piecemeal. They take away a few tidbits that are true and then people always add what they want to reframe the conversation.
Speaker 3:And so I think if a lot of people started asking us how much it costs for a surrogate versus how much for an egg donor and then all the legal, we absolutely would not tell them because every single person would say they must be super rich or I can't believe they're doing it for such a low price. So everybody's going to come in with a stupid opinion, and I think that is why it's really smart that agencies exist to keep this, not public information, because I think all of a sudden everybody's just going to start to rag on how much you did or didn't charge and again it doesn't come down to the money. Marissa wasn't doing this to go buy a fourth house in Acapulco. She was doing this because she wanted to help two men who would never be able to become dads become dads and, like you said, sunshine, you put a dollar value on it.
Speaker 4:And that goes back to also another misconception that I'm over is everybody thinks we're having a designer baby. What do you mean? Because it's like it's not natural so we're able to pick and choose how we want the baby. It's like we're not you know we're a designer baby we're paying for. It's like a labradoodle it's like it's worked. No, we're not.
Speaker 2:We're just trying to have a family, just like I don't know that science has come that far yet, or if it has, I don't think they're like ethically. It's the thing where you're able to be like. I want my baby to have this color eyes and blue eyes that be this tall and have a you know, this size of foot. Like I don't think you can do that yeah, no, it's not an instagram moment but I do think there are.
Speaker 2:There are um, like there are some egg donor agencies out there that are like there's a premium if you're a harvard or like an ivy league graduate or you know certain things, those things and we we totally get that too, like you're not wrong, wrong.
Speaker 3:We have actually seen that when we were doing research. And we also get it Like if you're somebody who really, really cares about certain things like aptitude, or, in my case, I'm 6'5", so I'm remarkably tall. He's 5'11", so he's average height. Regardless, we would have an average size child or leaning taller. But I think when he says designer baby, I'm hoping you're going to have a thick head of hair and perfectly green eyes and a square jaw. That's not how this works. Nobody knows. You can be a supermodel and have a child who doesn't grow up to be genetically stunning like you are, designer baby in the way that we're again, we're two guys.
Speaker 4:We physically cannot have a child, so we are designing our life to have this thing in our life and it's okay, cool, good for you.
Speaker 2:Good job. Glad you're able to do that.
Speaker 4:Instagram and you know all that kind of stuff, and it's like no, that's not where we're having a child.
Speaker 1:No, no, you want a family, you want to be dads.
Speaker 2:Whoever they're going to be Like. We don't get to decide who our children are. We just get to watch them become.
Speaker 1:So you can keep the ignorance out and you keep your your circle small, and I think that you guys have done that and I am so happy for you guys.
Speaker 2:I'm honored that we've had enough.
Speaker 1:We need to get to know you.
Speaker 3:This was cool. I mean, I feel like a dick for not having done more research to know that you both have done this multiple times for other people, Not just once, multiple times. Then also one of you have carried multiples and then the other also adopted and has your own child like this.
Speaker 1:This was a pretty educational for us well, I'm really glad you did your research, because I think your reaction and your questions have been so fun, so I think this went exactly the way it was supposed to.
Speaker 4:Well, great well, I just I really love what you guys are doing out there for us. I know it's a hard battle, um, uh, and you know, if we can help in any way with this story and everything that's what are doing out there for us. I know it's a hard battle. If we can help in any way with this story and everything that's what we're wanting to do.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, use it how you need to and everyone else. Keep your comments about people's baby's names to yourself. No one cares the end.
Speaker 2:Seriously.
Speaker 1:Thank you guys so much, I think we'll have to have you guys come back, okay.
Speaker 4:Yeah, Maybe we'll do a follow-up when she's one and be like how has life been now that you've had it? We're like, let me tell you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I want to see what you guys look like when you're not getting any sleep. Okay, I remember seeing Gavin Joe, that dad's, when they they were always like especially Joe. He always looked so good and he always had his hair like perfect and looked so amazing. And then after the twins were born, he looked like somebody ran him through the washing machine. I was like, oh you, poor beautiful man.
Speaker 3:This is where we did do our research, though Every single person who's been through this has told us if you were in a financial position to have a night nurse, you should do it. Every single person who's been through this has told us if you were in a financial position to have a night nurse, you should do it. So, luckily, we do have a NICU night nurse three nights a week. Who is going to get us through that? The lack of sleep is not going to work for us. I can't function without it, so we will have help in that department. I do think that was probably the best use of money ever, right? I love that for you.
Speaker 2:But I'm sure it's going to be a great benefit. Yeah, yes, it will. It will and and you have your people coming to support you and I'm just so excited. I just can't wait for you guys all, for Marissa this being her first journey, like I know. It's going to be such a magical day and and it can be a little stressful and it could be scary moments, but in the end it's just like it's the ultimate high. I think it really is. It's going to be so cool. I'm so excited for you guys. I wish I could be a fly on the wall.
Speaker 1:Oh, you probably will be Sending you guys so much love. Thank you for being a part of this with us today and sending you lots and lots of good vibes. Yes.
Speaker 4:Thank you so much, and thank you again for letting us do this.